Post by as556 on Dec 13, 2014 2:32:04 GMT
Ok guys, got it in my head I should compare the examples of LBE I own. I'm by no means an expert but enjoy doing these little overviews so hopefully some of you find it mildly interesting. Ill be comparing a few key areas like cost, weight, comfort, quality and ease of use. Weights will be approximate as everyone's set up will be different.
Cost:
ALICE was around $40 for the whole shebang, a very good deal IMO. Im running three triple M16 pouches, compass pouch (admin), canteen cover with canteen, dump pouch and pistol belt. All real surplus, the dump pouch is NCstar.
The Condor chest rig set me back $50, mostly due to the Multicam. They had coyote for $30. Again, IMO a good deal.
The TAG chest rig, the Phalanx Type 1, retails for about $120 but I picked it up on clearance for $32. Truly outstanding value..couldnt be happier with the price.
The TAG PC, the Banshee, retails around $200 but I got this on clearance too for $115. Even at $200 that's a great deal, I wouldn't have a problem paying that for it. I got all the pouches on clearance, off the top of my head the prices were:
PC $115
Plates $160
Pouches around $30
Weight:
The ALICE is fairly heavy compared to my other stuff. Its also much bulkier. In reality however the weight isn't difficult to bear at all and for me is pretty well distributed amongst the belt and shoulder straps. Around 15lbs 1qt h2o
The Condor is pretty lightweight, Id imagine it's 500d nylon. Not a whole lot to say here. It does have 6 rifle pouches and 6 pistol pouches so I do think that makes it heavier than the Phalanx, it also has MOLLE webbing sewn throughout where the Phalanx has none. Around 12 lbs no h20
The Phalanx is great. Very lightweight, very unobtrusive, and it has no MOLLE just integral pouches so I can't add a bunch of useless shit like I did on my PC. This keeps weight down and keeps things simple. This is good. Around 11 lbs 33oz h2o
OK..the Banshee. Well, she's going to be a heavy bitch, methinks. That's OK though. This is for static/vehicle borne use, no bugging out with this bad boy. Im going to estimate the final weight around 35lbs with 100oz of h2O (god damned heavy ass water..)
Comfort:
ALICE is probably going to come in last here for me. Its a great design, but lacks in several areas. The belt and shoulder straps are pretty abrasive and have zero padding, but other than that not bad. This can be remedied with a yoga mat cut and affixed to the inside of the belt and maybe a better harness. I have the Y harness, an H may be better. Another issue here is the ALICE clips themselves dig into your body. I fixed this by using heavy duty zip ties to attach my pouches.
Both the TAG and Condor are equally comfortable. Id call it a tie. Low profile 500d chest rigs are where it's at for comfort. May not give you all the capability of a PC but allows much better movement and stamina.
I don't have plates for my PC til they arrive, but they're 7.5lbs each. There also is no hydration carrier on the back because my Blackhawk one is late in the mail, plus my admin pouch is empty. So I can't comment on its comfort fully loaded until then. As it sits now its pretty comfy, the shoulder straps are well padded and the weight feels evenly distributed through my torso.
Quality:
ALICE is built like a brick shithouse. That said, it doesn't exactly ooze quality like some newer gear does. Leaves some ergo type issues to be desired but the construction is G2G.
My Condor gear isn't so bad quality wise. Better than some would lead you to believe. Even though this may be true it still does have some problems. Sub par stitching and out of spec MOLLE are evident in all the 5 or so products of theirs I have. But for me, that's no deal breaker. They get the job done.
Ill combine the to TAG items here, the quality really is quite good. Double and triple stitching at every possible stress point, great attention to detail and strong, durable fabric. The colors and patterns are true the originals. I very much expect this gear to outlast me.
Ease of use:
I don't care for the ALICE magazine pouches, they aren't conducive to quick reloads and just feel awkward to open and close. They are very secure but for me that's where the good ends. I always have to look to close them, and it's even worse with gloves. Kind of sucks they only work with GI mags but I recently discovered they also work with Troy magazines.
Both the Condor and TAG chest rigs have the bungee top closure, which is significantly better than the ALICE. They obviously stretch so they accommodate different sizes of mag but sometimes they get caught in my Ranger plates or the floorplate retaining tabs when I try to pull the tab off to grab a fresh mag.
I like the flap closure on my PC mag pouches. Secure and nothing really to get in your way or get twisted or tangled. Not the most high speed but easy and reliable to open. Despite the better mag pouch, I like drawing magazines off my belly, like a chest rig, rather than high off my chest where my plates sit. If I wanted I could run my PC slick with my Phalanx over it which would still give me rifle protection and a more natural feeling extracting mags.
Cost:
ALICE was around $40 for the whole shebang, a very good deal IMO. Im running three triple M16 pouches, compass pouch (admin), canteen cover with canteen, dump pouch and pistol belt. All real surplus, the dump pouch is NCstar.
The Condor chest rig set me back $50, mostly due to the Multicam. They had coyote for $30. Again, IMO a good deal.
The TAG chest rig, the Phalanx Type 1, retails for about $120 but I picked it up on clearance for $32. Truly outstanding value..couldnt be happier with the price.
The TAG PC, the Banshee, retails around $200 but I got this on clearance too for $115. Even at $200 that's a great deal, I wouldn't have a problem paying that for it. I got all the pouches on clearance, off the top of my head the prices were:
PC $115
Plates $160
Pouches around $30
Weight:
The ALICE is fairly heavy compared to my other stuff. Its also much bulkier. In reality however the weight isn't difficult to bear at all and for me is pretty well distributed amongst the belt and shoulder straps. Around 15lbs 1qt h2o
The Condor is pretty lightweight, Id imagine it's 500d nylon. Not a whole lot to say here. It does have 6 rifle pouches and 6 pistol pouches so I do think that makes it heavier than the Phalanx, it also has MOLLE webbing sewn throughout where the Phalanx has none. Around 12 lbs no h20
The Phalanx is great. Very lightweight, very unobtrusive, and it has no MOLLE just integral pouches so I can't add a bunch of useless shit like I did on my PC. This keeps weight down and keeps things simple. This is good. Around 11 lbs 33oz h2o
OK..the Banshee. Well, she's going to be a heavy bitch, methinks. That's OK though. This is for static/vehicle borne use, no bugging out with this bad boy. Im going to estimate the final weight around 35lbs with 100oz of h2O (god damned heavy ass water..)
Comfort:
ALICE is probably going to come in last here for me. Its a great design, but lacks in several areas. The belt and shoulder straps are pretty abrasive and have zero padding, but other than that not bad. This can be remedied with a yoga mat cut and affixed to the inside of the belt and maybe a better harness. I have the Y harness, an H may be better. Another issue here is the ALICE clips themselves dig into your body. I fixed this by using heavy duty zip ties to attach my pouches.
Both the TAG and Condor are equally comfortable. Id call it a tie. Low profile 500d chest rigs are where it's at for comfort. May not give you all the capability of a PC but allows much better movement and stamina.
I don't have plates for my PC til they arrive, but they're 7.5lbs each. There also is no hydration carrier on the back because my Blackhawk one is late in the mail, plus my admin pouch is empty. So I can't comment on its comfort fully loaded until then. As it sits now its pretty comfy, the shoulder straps are well padded and the weight feels evenly distributed through my torso.
Quality:
ALICE is built like a brick shithouse. That said, it doesn't exactly ooze quality like some newer gear does. Leaves some ergo type issues to be desired but the construction is G2G.
My Condor gear isn't so bad quality wise. Better than some would lead you to believe. Even though this may be true it still does have some problems. Sub par stitching and out of spec MOLLE are evident in all the 5 or so products of theirs I have. But for me, that's no deal breaker. They get the job done.
Ill combine the to TAG items here, the quality really is quite good. Double and triple stitching at every possible stress point, great attention to detail and strong, durable fabric. The colors and patterns are true the originals. I very much expect this gear to outlast me.
Ease of use:
I don't care for the ALICE magazine pouches, they aren't conducive to quick reloads and just feel awkward to open and close. They are very secure but for me that's where the good ends. I always have to look to close them, and it's even worse with gloves. Kind of sucks they only work with GI mags but I recently discovered they also work with Troy magazines.
Both the Condor and TAG chest rigs have the bungee top closure, which is significantly better than the ALICE. They obviously stretch so they accommodate different sizes of mag but sometimes they get caught in my Ranger plates or the floorplate retaining tabs when I try to pull the tab off to grab a fresh mag.
I like the flap closure on my PC mag pouches. Secure and nothing really to get in your way or get twisted or tangled. Not the most high speed but easy and reliable to open. Despite the better mag pouch, I like drawing magazines off my belly, like a chest rig, rather than high off my chest where my plates sit. If I wanted I could run my PC slick with my Phalanx over it which would still give me rifle protection and a more natural feeling extracting mags.
