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Post by LowKey on Aug 6, 2016 17:52:03 GMT
I'm kinda wondering why people aren't snatching these up when they want a semi-.308 Win and going instead to one of the various AR-10's. It's no sub-MOA bolt action rifle, but it works more reliably that just about any .308 semi out there and it's field grade accurate for as far as you can see. Bluntly put, in my case it's because I'm very comfortable working on ARs. They're simple as can be, and I'll enjoy putting mine together from parts. Then there is the mag change. I don't like rocking mags, the same reason I don't prefer AKs. Good weapons, just not my cup of tea. What are the PTR-91s running these days, price wise?
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Post by omegaman on Aug 6, 2016 18:54:06 GMT
I want a PTR sooooo bad. Atlantic firearms has one with the old-school wide G3 handguards. So sexy. I'm still "meh" on AR-10s. Sweet set-up, b35!
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Post by thelastone on Aug 6, 2016 19:42:18 GMT
I still want a ar10. I'll probably pony up for a LMT when I do it though. My reasons over PTR are essentially all aftermarket upgradability items. PTR's are good enough for Paccino in Heat, they're good enough for anyone I think they are cool and would like to shoot one someday.
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Post by Browning35 on Aug 6, 2016 22:04:54 GMT
I'm kinda wondering why people aren't snatching these up when they want a semi-.308 Win and going instead to one of the various AR-10's. It's no sub-MOA bolt action rifle, but it works more reliably that just about any .308 semi out there and it's field grade accurate for as far as you can see. Bluntly put, in my case it's because I'm very comfortable working on ARs. They're simple as can be, and I'll enjoy putting mine together from parts. Then there is the mag change. I don't like rocking mags, the same reason I don't prefer AKs. Good weapons, just not my cup of tea. What are the PTR-91s running these days, price wise? I'll buy the familiarity part of it, I'm more familiar with the AR myself. A few times I've been confused at the lack of a BHO and then after I realized that I need to lock it open I've almost reached back to the charging handle at the rear of the receiver on the PTR before I remembered that I was firing a different rifle and that it was up front. I'm better on its operation now, but the urge to reach the AR controls was there. It just seems like every time I hear about someone buying a lower end AR-10 variant they seem like they end up having trouble with it if they start putting a lot of rds through it. A lot of guys out here have them as hunting rifles, especially for hogs. My father-in-law had a RRA .308 Win LAR-8, another had a DPMS and still another had a CMMG MK-something and they all had trouble with them. At first they were okay since they were just firing rds to sight in in and then single shots to down hogs or deer. Not like it takes a huge amount of rds to go hunting. Eventually they started shooting them quite often in practice and that's where the trouble started popping up. Not to mention Gingerbread's epic struggles with them to find one that'll work, so I would kinda rather stick with the big 3 old school .308's (M1A/FAL/H&K) or pony up for a FN SCAR. I completely realize that this is all somewhat anecdotal, but from my narrow view of the AR-10 variants is that they're not that great until you get up to something like an LMT. Then from what I understand they work pretty well. To each their own. I'm probably going to stay away from the AR-10's though. Right now from a quick scan of gunbroker it looks like PTR's are going for between $900 and $1175. Much of that is from the elections. 6 months ago you'd see some of them going for between $675 and $1100 with most of them going for around $800. Century came out with a H&K copy called the C-308 that's supposed to be okay. Those are going for $619 and $750 on gunbroker. Those use a Cetme sight though, the receiver is made by PTR for Century. Don't know where they got the rest of it. I usually have a tendency to veer away from Century, but that one actually looks okay. Not sure if that's justified or not.
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Post by Gingerbread Man on Aug 9, 2016 12:11:43 GMT
I've had two malfs from any G3 rifle ever.
One right after the other from the same box of ammo. They short stroked so I'm saying the ammo was out of spec. Other than that the PTR/G3 is 100% reliable, accurate and more or less ergonomic.
Things that REALLY help it, the extended charging handle, extended safety and the "navy" lower. If you plan on shooting it a lot the beaver tail handguard will save your hand. For me personally the LOP is about 1 inch too long because I'm used to AR-15s.
All that stated, the 1x4 Trijicon Accupower I just got maybe the best scope I own. No shit, this thing is titties. 100% recommend full buy.
I have traded off my RMR equipped Glocks. Yupe, no more piggy back RMRs. It made zero difference for me. My draws were just as fast with irons or RMRs. I can hit plates at 25m just as fast and easily with an RMR or irons. You still have to aim, you still have to have trigger control and you still have to find the front sight or dot. So I'm back to plain Jane vanilla Glocks and I'm loving it. Sorry, it's a fad and not a good one. It's expensive to mount and there's no difference. Buh bye. Instead of the $800 that it costs to do to look cool on instagram, I recommend loads of ammo, range time and competent pistol instruction.
I also got a 1x and 3x Vortex Prism scopes. Wow, very clear, very good illumination and easy to mount. both are calibrated for 5.56. I really like the green settings. Both are etched glass. Unless something really weird happens, I think these are wieners.
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Post by LowKey on Aug 9, 2016 21:00:22 GMT
I have traded off my RMR equipped Glocks. Yupe, no more piggy back RMRs. It made zero difference for me. My draws were just as fast with irons or RMRs. I can hit plates at 25m just as fast and easily with an RMR or irons. You still have to aim, you still have to have trigger control and you still have to find the front sight or dot. I'm not as in love with RMR's as I was before either. Maybe as a piggy back on a x4 scope, but on a pistol...nope. With the admittedly limited range time I get, I'm finding that old school "point shooting" ala Fairbain works quite nicely. Beyond 25m or so I start leaning on the use of the iron sights. Inside of that....I just put 2-3 rounds down range on the theory that anything worth being shot once should be shot twice.
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Post by dannusmaximus on Aug 13, 2016 18:59:52 GMT
Looking for some guidance, hive mind...
I'm still buying up ammo with the assumption that, at a minimum, there will be supply issues post-election no matter who gets elected. Realistically, I think we will have a "Mrs. President" starting in January 2017. So, look at these variables and give me some guidance on my purchase priorities:
1. There will be a run on all common centerfire calibers, causing a supply issue. 2. There is a very real chance that bans on ammunition imports (all popular calibers) will be enacted. 3. There is also a very real chance that internet sales will somehow be heavily regulated or eliminated. 4. There is a slim chance that steps will be taken to make 'evil black rifle' ammo prohibitively expensive to either buy or manufacture, or so difficult to get that it is essentially out of reach of most buyers. I don't think that will happen with pistol ammo.
I frankly shoot a lot more pistol than rifle(probably 2-3X more), but also think that 9mm is more likely to be available than .223/5.56 in the near future.
I can budget around $100 a month or so on range ammo, which means I can buy either 500 9mm or 500 .223 per month.
If I stopped buying ammo right now and shot the same amount I always do each month, I probably have 1.5 to 2 years worth of pistol rounds, and maybe double that in rifle rounds before I ran out of range ammo and had to dip into my serious bidness stockpiles.
So... focus more on buying pistol ammo (which I use alot more of but think might be marginally more available), or focus more on rifle ammo (which I don't use nearly as much but think might go the way of the Do-Do bird).?
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Post by Browning35 on Aug 14, 2016 1:41:27 GMT
Looking for some guidance, hive mind... I frankly shoot a lot more pistol than rifle(probably 2-3X more), ... To me there's your answer. I'd probably buy 2 to 3 times as much pistol as rifle ammo. I'm more thinking of this as future practice ammo to be bled out over the months or years to stay somewhat current with your skills rather than some kind of end time ragnarok/apocalypse civil war 2 ammo (where rifle ammo would presumably be more helpful). Besides, presumably you have several thousand rifle rds that you don't shoot that much of to fall back on if shit gets real.
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Post by dannusmaximus on Aug 14, 2016 3:50:16 GMT
Looking for some guidance, hive mind... I frankly shoot a lot more pistol than rifle(probably 2-3X more), ... To me there's your answer. I'd probably buy 2 to 3 times as much pistol as rifle ammo. I'm more thinking of this as future practice ammo to be bled out over the months or years to stay somewhat current with your skills rather than some kind of end time ragnarok/apocalypse civil war 2 ammo (where rifle ammo would presumably be more helpful). Besides, presumably you have several thousand rifle rds that you don't shoot that much of to fall back on if shit gets real.
I do indeed, roughly 2000 rounds of quality, brass-cased ZOMBIEZ!!!!!!! ammunition stored, with no intent of shooting unless I really, REALLY need to. I've only been buying range ammo (Wolf) as part of my post-election purchases for the past several months.
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Post by as556 on Aug 14, 2016 7:22:00 GMT
Dan- how many pistols are you feeding vs how many rifles? I think 1k per rifle is a fair amount and if memory serves you have 2-3 in the house? 6920, Bushy and a Spikes mid. So another K wouldn't hurt. Wolf Gold is fantastic M193 spec ammo and affordable.
I honestly think pistols are more useful but I've just got a thing for rifles. I shoot more rifle for sure. My view is get AR mags, parts and ammo now cuz those days are gone soon. Pistol mags and ammo will be around for awhile I think.
Plus truth be told I'm not too concerned about mag cap in pistols...if I had to carry a 5 shot snub or a 7 shot 1911 I wouldn't be upset. If I had to use 5 shot AR mags I wouldn't be a happy camper.
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Post by LowKey on Aug 14, 2016 11:08:37 GMT
I'm thinking that reloading, along with bullet swaging and a healthy supply of powder and primers is the way to go. Brass can be reused. Bullet's can be made. This should stretch out your on hand ammunition, and stretch your ammo dollar further should they do something horrific like a prohibitively high ammo tax.
Shoot reloads for practice, save the store bought for SD and hunting.
If you go this route, do pay attention to how to properly store the powder and primers....first hint, they don't get stored anywhere close to each other.
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Post by thelastone on Aug 14, 2016 11:36:02 GMT
I would buy the pistol 2 months, rifle 1 month. I usually shoot pistol more because convenience, but now that I'm a member of a cheap $100 a year range (that's it!) I shoot rifle more than previously because I can. I don't think we will every feel like we have enough for all the just in case's. Do the best you can and don't get sucked into the panics when they roll around. I agree with all your concerns being pretty real possibilities. I feel like I have all the hardware I could possibly 'need', but man there is still a pile I want haha. I agree ammo is the tangible stuff that could really put a damper on everything pretty quick. I think mag capacity will be the first thing to go, then rifle features, then ammo online. But I'm just a simple farmer and what do I know? That being said, I also have several years worth of ammo at my current rate. I should get more 22 since I have a suppressor on the way and will want to shoot the hell out of it when it breaks free... And we all know 22 is somehow the first to go.
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Post by LowKey on Aug 14, 2016 13:58:19 GMT
That being said, I also have several years worth of ammo at my current rate. I should get more 22 since I have a suppressor on the way and will want to shoot the hell out of it when it breaks free... And we all know 22 is somehow the first to go. You know you can reload .22lr, right? Slow and boring, yes....but still possible. link
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Post by Browning35 on Aug 14, 2016 14:40:09 GMT
I do indeed, roughly 2000 rounds of quality, brass-cased ZOMBIEZ!!!!!!! ammunition stored, with no intent of shooting unless I really, REALLY need to. I've only been buying range ammo (Wolf) as part of my post-election purchases for the past several months. Yeah, I figured you did.
I kinda think what everyone has said so far has some merit.Dan- how many pistols are you feeding vs how many rifles? I think 1k per rifle is a fair amount and if memory serves you have 2-3 in the house? 6920, Bushy and a Spikes mid. So another K wouldn't hurt. Wolf Gold is fantastic M193 spec ammo and affordable. I honestly think pistols are more useful but I've just got a thing for rifles. I shoot more rifle for sure. My view is get AR mags, parts and ammo now cuz those days are gone soon. The 1,000 rds per gun that Tony's talking about is the standard I've used for years and years up until recently. Then after that a couple years ago I upped it to 2,000 per gun. Up until recently I had 6 .223's/5.56's. I recently sold one, so now I have 5.
I became a little complacent up until the first of the year because nothing was happening on the gun legislation front, so now I'm struggling to replace what I shot and currently I have a little over 8,000 rounds of .223 ammo, I'm going for 10,000 rds again.
2,000 rds per rifle in that caliber, plus maybe 2,000 rds of shooter ammo that (hopefully) gets rotated frequently (that'd be 12k, but have to get back to where I was first). That sounds like a lot, but it can go quick ... especially if you're shooting and you aren't replacing it at all and frankly that's what we're talking about here. A panic where prices raise dramatically and then reduced availability which is then followed by draconian legislation where you can't get anymore. So the standard that I'd held for years got changed.
With my 9mm pistols I have a similar amount of ammo (8k) that I have for my .223's, but near double the amount of gats. So I'm going for 10k there as well.
With .45, and 7.62x39 I have 50% of the ammo that I have for 9mm and .223, but I shoot them far less.
With .40 and .308 I'm struggling to make it to the 1k mark with each. I've actually been shooting a fair amount of each, so I'm making both a priority. I really like shooting that PTR-91 and that 4th Gen Glock 23 with the Nickel Boron slide and the stippled grip and backstraps. Shooting 60 to 120 rds per range trip isn't conducive to saving ammo.
So that's where I'm at on ammo and my reasoning for each.
What low-key has said about reloading and what the last one has said about 22 Long rifle ammunition are both spot on IMHO. Saving your brass doesn't cost you anything and potentially adds from 2-to-5x's as much shooting if you ever pick it up. On the .22LR we're 3 years and change out (will be 4 years this coming November and December) from Obama's reelection and Sandy Hook and locally we still haven't recovered fully in regards to .22LR availability and selection. At many places you're able to find .22,ammo most of the time, but you'll never be able to know which brand or bullet type it'll be. There'll just probably be some type of .22 ammo available rather than having a favorite brand and 'knowing' that it'll be there.
I'd also go with TLO's suggestion of pistol ammo for 2 months and rifle for 1 month rotating schedule rather than a 3-to-1 schedule as I believe it would get you to far ahead.I'm thinking that reloading, along with bullet swaging and a healthy supply of powder and primers is the way to go. I would buy the pistol 2 months, rifle 1 month. --------- I should get more 22 since I have a suppressor on the way and will want to shoot the hell out of it when it breaks free... And we all know 22 is somehow the first to go.
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Post by LowKey on Aug 14, 2016 14:55:10 GMT
Here's a place to look into reloading. linkBTW, apologies to Tony, he's really the reloading SME here. I'm just doing the copy-pasta thing.
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