|
|
Post by Browning35 on Jan 10, 2014 2:51:27 GMT
Baiting an attack would put you in a difficult position from a couple of different perspectives I would think. For one if you did have to use a great deal of force or shoot to stop the attack if it came out that you had spoken to people about this your legal defense would be immediately thrown in the toilet. You'd be branded as some sort of vigilante and they'd talk about your case while showing still photos taken from ' Death Wish' in the background. For whatever reason people looking to get some payback or take out scumbags are treated two to three times as harshly by the legal system as the pieces of shit they go after. For the second part these people are good at blind siding victims. They'll either just act all nonchalant like they're walking past and then strike (in civilized society one of the drawbacks is that people are often within close proximity to strangers) or they'll come up and ask you for directions, or if you can tell them the time or to ask for a light for a cigarette to close your reaction gap. They don't broadcast their intentions from 50 yards away. For many people they don't know when to draw the line and listen to their antenna, increase distance, look to see if anyone else is coming up on them and start reaching for their weapon or get ready. They second guess themselves and don't know how to react. A million things could go wrong, especially if you're on your own with no one to back you up. I know it's just a mental exercise, but I've enough trouble pop off without looking for it. :Shrug Sorta sounds like what some cops are doing down here with burglars by having ' Bait Houses'. www.wfaa.com/news/crime/Dallas-PD-Sets-up-Bait-Houses-151968585.htmlAlso heard about that kind of thing when there's been a serial killer targeting a specific area with prostitutes, the Stakeout Squad with Jim Cirillo where they went after armed robbers hitting pawn shops and liquor stores or the subways of NY where cops would pretend to be drunken businessmen. Then again they're cops....plenty of backup, training, empowered by the State and they're trying to arrest them. |
|
|
|
Post by shiddymunkie on Jan 10, 2014 3:05:33 GMT
But, would you say that the sole act of "willfully being in a high-crime area" actually qualifies as baiting? Just by being there?
After all, it would be different if you were walking around verbally encouraging people to attack you, or something like that. The only difference between this person and your normal unsuspecting (yet armed) victim is what they want to happen. One "wants" to be attacked and one doesn't -- but is "want" really enough to legally rid them of their right to protect themselves, or is it just morally reprehensible?
And if it does remove their right to self defense, on what grounds? (Not saying I condone this, just for the sake of argument)
|
|
|
|
Post by Browning35 on Jan 10, 2014 3:36:29 GMT
But, would you say that the sole act of "willfully being in a high-crime area" actually qualifies as baiting? Just by being there? More something you'd have to ask a lawyer than me, but walking around in a high crime area isn't illegal in any way. Like I said before though, if someone was doing this and they were attacked, they had to use deadly force and they were stupid enough to admit it to the investigating officers I'm betting something would come of it. I mean think about it. Some people get charged for just defending themselves and end up going through a legal and media nightmare without the added trouble of looking to get attacked. |
|
|
|
Post by Gingerbread Man on Jan 10, 2014 11:18:36 GMT
My take on going into high crime areas or going in there to bait crime, don't.
Excuse the snark, but it never works out the way you think it will in your head. Criminals that live in high crime areas are damn good at crime, know how to pick and choose their victims and who to avoid. They're damn good at criminal violence and being nasty about it. Personally, I think avoidance is the best option.
|
|
|
|
Post by NamelessStain on Jan 10, 2014 13:14:31 GMT
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke (disputed)
|
|
|
|
Post by redeyes on Jan 11, 2014 7:21:19 GMT
My take on going into high crime areas or going in there to bait crime, don't. Excuse the snark, but it never works out the way you think it will in your head. Criminals that live in high crime areas are damn good at crime, know how to pick and choose their victims and who to avoid. They're damn good at criminal violence and being nasty about it. Personally, I think avoidance is the best option. I am firmly in this camp. As far as 'evil triumphing because good men did nothing', it is not enough to have good intentions, you also have to go about things intelligently. Want to make a difference? 1. Get yourself trained up. 2. Offer to walk coworkers/friends to cars or give them rides. 3. Educate people who will listen about staying alert and training that will help them during a violent confrontation. 4. Look out for others. If you see someone who looks like a good potential victim; head phones in, paying attention to phone and not surroundings, etc. watch out for them as much as you can and if it seems like they would listen, educate. If you can make yourself and others harder for bad people to prey on you are most definitely doing something. |
|
|
|
Post by shiddymunkie on Jan 12, 2014 2:17:09 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Browning35 on Jan 12, 2014 12:39:49 GMT
Couple things that are bullshit in that video...
1) @1:39 the detective (right) claims that he doesn't consider the 3 instances to be the knockout game because one person was hit more than once, in one case the person was also robbed and in the third they couldn't remember much of what happened.
People are different, their motivations for doing things are going to be different. Their past experiences are going to be different and so their behavior is going to be different. There's not going to be one set way of 'playing' this game. In all cases the victim will be assaulted, but in some of the cases there perpetrators will run off right after, in some cases the victim will be robbed, in some cases they'll continue the attack until they're satisfied and in some cases they might even be dragged into a car and sexually assaulted.
2) The motivation of the police is to keep order and to reassure the public. All kinds of different crimes don't get put out into statistics due to reasoning like this.
If they'd caught the guy or guys responsible, they established that the hitter knew the victim, there was some sort of prior relationship there, they'd done some investigating and decided that there was nothing there that would be one thing. This just smacks of a public relations deal to me to reassure the public that downtown Denver is safe. The detective even says those words.
If it really turns out that this isn't the case here after a thorough investigation that's one thing. In that case that's awesome, we've just got people getting beat up for kicks (which amounts to the same thing to me) or for a wallet, jewelry or a cell phone. However I've seen where the police tried to reassure the public before, stated things that they didn't know and it turned out that they were wrong.
What a crock.
|
|
|
|
Post by Gingerbread Man on Jan 12, 2014 15:54:44 GMT
My take on going into high crime areas or going in there to bait crime, don't. Excuse the snark, but it never works out the way you think it will in your head. Criminals that live in high crime areas are damn good at crime, know how to pick and choose their victims and who to avoid. They're damn good at criminal violence and being nasty about it. Personally, I think avoidance is the best option. I am firmly in this camp. As far as 'evil triumphing because good men did nothing', it is not enough to have good intentions, you also have to go about things intelligently. Want to make a difference? 1. Get yourself trained up. 2. Offer to walk coworkers/friends to cars or give them rides. 3. Educate people who will listen about staying alert and training that will help them during a violent confrontation. 4. Look out for others. If you see someone who looks like a good potential victim; head phones in, paying attention to phone and not surroundings, etc. watch out for them as much as you can and if it seems like they would listen, educate. If you can make yourself and others harder for bad people to prey on you are most definitely doing something. Yeah, let's face it, I personally know the majority of people or have at least met them on this forum. We are not going to be targets. Not a single one of us are small*, all are very smart and aware of their surroundings. I believe all of us carry but furthermore, I don't think anyone of us is not proficient with the gun we carry. Not to sound like an ass but if they threw those weak ass poor form punches on me I'd beat whole sale ass. Good luck. *'sept maybe NoAm, from what I gather. |
|
|
|
Post by shiddymunkie on Jan 12, 2014 19:25:16 GMT
I'm not sure what to think of the video. The fact that they even made one to address this small number of supposedly unrelated assaults seems a little fishy to me, almost as if they are trying too hard to play them down. Then again, who knows how many calls they got from concerned citizens about them. Perhaps there were enough to warrant making a video?
Either way, it seems clear to me that they don't really know much about these assaults, and I doubt they would tell the public they were part the knockout game if there was even a tiny bit of uncertainty. Short of them catching the suspects on video, or arresting them and having them admit it was part of the knock out game, I don't think they'd ever try to make that connection unless there was just too much evidence to deny a connection.
|
|
|
|
Post by Browning35 on Jan 13, 2014 16:18:18 GMT
I don't know for sure, but my impression is that they're just lying and doing some PR. Guess we'll find out one way or another. Unless they're caught, convicted and imprisoned or killed during the commission of a crime I don't think that these guys are done. - BTW...love that ZS thread where you asked about walking around in a bad neighborhood as a come-on for an attack.  Didn't take long for the hypocritical lib-tard trolls to rip that shit to pieces including posting a pic of Bruce Willis holding a sign from the movie Die Hard saying " Fuck *****s". Lefties aren't racist though. /sarc One guy got a warning for " Provoking a troll". You can't make this shit up. |
|
|
|
Post by shiddymunkie on Jan 14, 2014 1:21:02 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Gingerbread Man on Jan 17, 2014 18:58:52 GMT
I like this guy. His attitude, most of his techniques.
|
|
|
|
Post by Browning35 on Jan 17, 2014 19:08:20 GMT
Yeah, he's got some good ideas. Especially about going on the offensive immediately.
|
|
|
|
Post by Gingerbread Man on Jan 17, 2014 19:13:11 GMT
Yeah, he's got some good ideas. Especially about going on the offensive immediately. Yeah, that's a big thing. You're in a fight that got brought to you. Now, you better ring bells or you're going to end up on your back like Zimmerman taking a beating. The first move he does, the big cover up to elbow strike is the money. Also, falling into a bear hug after getting hit is money. Every time I've been sparring and taking a beating, I get close and shut the punching down. |
|
