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Post by dannusmaximus on Aug 31, 2017 18:53:45 GMT
This took place in my little 'burg the day before yesterday. Here is a link to a news article with footage of the shooting from cameras on the exterior of the federal building as well as body camera footage from the officer: www.14news.com/story/36254554/epd-release-video-of-officer-involved-shootingShort version: Man appears at the federal building on Monday with unknown grievances, is eventually escorted off the property. Man returns Tuesday with a baseball bat and knife, begins breaking out windows. Local officer responds and attempts to subdue with a taser, taser is not effective, officer fires after the man with the bat charges at him, man is fatally wounded and dies on scene. I can probably answer questions if you have any, just posting this as a reminder how quickly things happen in a gunfight. |
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Post by LowKey on Sept 1, 2017 4:34:51 GMT
I'd say that press briefing should become training material for LE Agencies nationwide. It was a fantastic job of stating the facts of the incident and the reasons the officer acted as he did, and just as importantly it was delivered credibly....no tap dancing around stuff, no weasel words.
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Post by Browning35 on Sept 1, 2017 10:30:57 GMT
Why didn't he just shoot him in the leg?
Seriously, that went bad quick.
With all the rhetoric these protestors are employing these days it's almost like you have to have video if you expect to not get charged with murder or attempted murder. With the amount of support it takes by a willing department to not have public opinion shift on them contrast this with how little support a civilian shooting to save their own life would receive these days. These days the average Joe or Jane is screwed.
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Post by dannusmaximus on Sept 1, 2017 15:43:51 GMT
Why didn't he just shoot him in the leg?Seriously, that went bad quick. With all the rhetoric these protestors are employing these days it's almost like you have to have video if you expect to not get charged with murder or attempted murder. With the amount of support it takes by a willing department to not have public opinion shift on them contrast this with how little support a civilian shooting to save their own life would receive these days. These days the average Joe or Jane is screwed. Honestly, if there is a civilian SD shooting in Indiana it almost doesn't warrant a blip on the news. Wide, WIDE latitude in deadly force law in the Hoosier state, and people seem overwhelmingly open to giving the armed citizen the benefit of the doubt. Police officers? Sometimes not so much. This happened to be a pretty straightforward and appropriate use of deadly force by PD, so backlash has been very minimal. Pretty much any reasonable person understands that a person running at you swinging a ball bat is a serious deadly threat. They key though is 'reasonable person'. I was on shift that day, and PD and FD were kind of on pins and needles that there might be...unrest in certain portions of the city. That didn't happen, and I guess we can thank Hurricane Harvey that the national news media was too busy to pick up the story and run full-tilt with it ('Mentally Ill African American Man gunned down by White Police Officer!") to fan any latent flames. |
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Post by dannusmaximus on Sept 1, 2017 15:54:06 GMT
I'd say that press briefing should become training material for LE Agencies nationwide. It was a fantastic job of stating the facts of the incident and the reasons the officer acted as he did, and just as importantly it was delivered credibly....no tap dancing around stuff, no weasel words. Jason (Sgt. Cullum, the PIO) has had that gig for several years, and does do a pretty damn good job of it. My only fault was that he kept saying things like: "The officer acted legally..." "The officer broke no laws..." I guess it is important to say those canned statements, but it seems like a low bar to me. I wish they would stress that not only was he legally in the right as a police officer, but ANYBODY, not just police officers, would be completely justified in using armed force against a baseball bat wielding assaulter. Sometimes an action can be 'legal' but still not pass the sniff test (see: activity by most politicians on any given day...). I agree, though, it was a pretty good press conference, assisted by the fact that our local press corps is generally pretty friendly to public safety in the area. If the national media had showed up waving the WHITE COP KILLS BLACK MAN banner, it might not have gone so smoothly. I do think this could be an excellent video to show the "Why didn't they just use a taser?!" crowd why a Taser isn't the magical solution to every problem faced by law enforcement. The takeaway would be: 1. Because you only get one shot 2. Because you have to get really, REALLY close to have a chance to hit 3. Because they don't always work on a person 4. Because Plan 'B' involves backpedalling as fast as you can and trying to draw your pistol as the guy chases you down swinging a baseball bat! |
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Post by dannusmaximus on Sept 1, 2017 15:55:38 GMT
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Post by LowKey on Sept 1, 2017 19:00:50 GMT
I'd say that press briefing should become training material for LE Agencies nationwide. It was a fantastic job of stating the facts of the incident and the reasons the officer acted as he did, and just as importantly it was delivered credibly....no tap dancing around stuff, no weasel words. Jason (Sgt. Cullum, the PIO) has had that gig for several years, and does do a pretty damn good job of it. My only fault was that he kept saying things like: "The officer acted legally..." "The officer broke no laws..." Yes, I agree. Good to point out that everything was legal but it would be better to include that it was reasonable and would be so for anyone, LEO and non-LEO alike as you said. As to the statement released by the family- 1- They are showing great fortitude, reasoned judgment, and character under stress at what is surely a tragic time for them. All honor to them for not trying to turn this into something it was not. 2- I admire that they are pointing out the mental illness aspect of this, and that the rules regarding the mentally ill who may present a danger to themselves and the public need to be re-examined. Far to many incidents of violence stem from people with mental illness who a generation ago would have been committed to psychiatric care. The poor quality of care given at that time prompted a move to release all of them into the streets, which has greatly contributed to the increase in homelessness and violence. 3- The family member acting as spokesmen for the immediate family was well spoken and obviously educated. As it's likely that his spouse (by whom he has kinship to the deceased) and her family are as well, I believe this factors heavily into the reasoned and heartbreakingly calm and candid statement given. Once more, all honor to them for not lashing out reflexively in their pain. |
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Post by Browning35 on Sept 3, 2017 12:18:56 GMT
Whether he brought it on himself or not that's pretty awesome that the family released that statement. No calls for the officers heads. No calls for marching on the suburbs nearby and burning them to the ground. Nothing except for the acknowledgement that their family is grieving and perhaps that people should try harder to get their loved ones help if they're mentally ill and maybe a hint that the officers could have tried different tactics in there somewhere.
I'm not sure what else the officers could have done differently though. Some officers receive special training to deal with the mentally ill, but that requires that they know that the suspect attacking federal officers with a club and venting his frustration on the building in an attempt to gain entry is mentally ill in the first place.
Maybe not approach quite so close and set up a dialogue with him via phone in an attempt to talk him down?
Bean bag him into compliance with a shotgun loaded with less than lethal ammunition behind a few shields?
Sometimes I think people expect officers to be mind readers though. They don't know what kind of situation they're entering until they get there.
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