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Post by misterdark on Feb 4, 2016 1:50:17 GMT
So, you are in a hypothetical OHCRAPTHEWORLDENDED situation, and for one stupid reason or another, you are 300+ miles from home.
For the sake of discussion, it was a major solar flare / EMP event, and the vast majority of motorized vehicles are out of service. (Yes, I have read the conflicting theories on whether a metal vehicle, isolated from ground, would even be affected, but stick with me here)
Being the amazingly well prepared individual that you are, you had the foresight to pack a REALLY WELL outfitted Get Home Bag. Which is a good thing, since you are now looking at a 300 mile walk through urban, suburban, and rural terrain back to your home and family. In the winter.
So, whats in your bag?
Discuss.
(For me, it would have to be a trade-off between UL backpacking gear, and good ol reliable (and stealthy) milsurp gear. With my knee, it would have to be as light a pack as possible, which points to minimalist and bushcrafty loadouts. Not entirely sure what that entails, but it would have to be the absolute bare essentials for survival and movement. Every ounce would matter.)
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Post by Browning35 on Feb 4, 2016 4:04:04 GMT
Can I have a mountain bike in my bag? 300 miles? Damn. Good shoes would be at the top of the list. Whatever I had I'd want it to be light. It wouldn't be what I'd wish for though, I'd just have what I always have in my truck, what I have on me or the little GHB and that medical kit I throw in on trips. I'll have to look, been awhile since I've been through them.
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Post by misterdark on Feb 4, 2016 5:28:02 GMT
A mountain bike would be a really great idea!
I thought I'd make it a difficult thought experiment. Also I am driving a little farther than that tomorrow, and hey, it's always fun to say "what if?"
...ok, not a LOT of fun to imagine walking 300 miles in a post-apocalyptic nightmare, but you gets what you can gets.
So far, I am thinking most of the gear could be nice UL stuff:
Shelter: a goretex bivy like the OR advanced bivy and a good winter-weight down bag. Maybe a cuben fiber tarp (does anyone make one in Multicam?) Also a set of thermals, spare socks and undies, cap, gloves, UL softshell jacket, and goretex or other space-age rainpants and jacket. All as UL as I can find.
Water: Sawyer mini with the syringe, several platy bags, a SS water bottle just because. Chemical tabs as backup.
Food: I have no idea. I think it would have to involve snares, traps, and a trotline. Energy-dense foods would be important, but nobody can carry 300 miles worth of food. (BTW Peanut or Olive oil, Macadamia nuts, and Pecans take the top spot on energy-per-ounce, but I would eventually tire of olive oil drenched pecans. Or maybe not. A jar or two of peanut butter would be efficient if not boring)
Security/Communications: Hand crank radio with AM/FM/SW. If it still works, that is. Headlamp and flashlight. (if they still work) Some way to charge batteries, if it still works... As far as things that go BANG, I guess my regular handgun would be with me, along with a couple of mags. Carry a long arm? Just not sure. "But it's the PAW!" I hear you say. "I NEED an AK and 600 rounds..." or not. A good 22LR rifle may be the ticket. Not as glamorous as 5.56 or 300BO, but far better than harsh language or pointy sticks.. Misc: And so begins the "just one more thing" part of building a bag. Let the excess weight commence. ~Wet wipes just because I am still a little civilized. (til they run out) ~Castille soap and a bandanna, instant cleanliness. ~A map and compass, duh. ~a basic FAK. In the PAW, you get shot, you are screwed. So a well equipped FAK should have lots of bourbon.
And here is where the bushy stuff comes in: ~a saw and good knife for processing wood for fires and shelter would be nice. ~firekit with stuff. ~cook set. I have a snowpeak Ti billy pot that I love. It does what I need. ~Either a Bushbuddy-type stove, or a small shovel to dig dakota fire holes. Both work. The Bushbuddy would be faster.
And finally, a pound of gold coins, $5000 in cash, and promises of pretty damsels if someone could just drive me home.
Ok, who's next?
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Post by Gingerbread Man on Feb 4, 2016 13:18:51 GMT
300 miles. Wow.
Let's see. Certainly a extra pair of socks. Towel, wet weather gear, since it's a low likelihood of having a long gun extra ammo for my EDC. Water filter, hammock, UQ, good top cover. A damn fine tarp, a small pot for cooking, Emberlit stove. At least 2 1L Naglenes. Leatherman, a bush craft knife and one for scaring the piss out of people. Collapsible baton. Call me a scab but I'd "borrow" the first bike I could. Screw that noise. Walking 300 miles would suck on epic proportions. A dyno light and at least one head lamp with the red LED. I would not be using any trapping or fishing gear because if the lights go out, the party is going to get frisky really fast. I'd focus on stealth and speed of movement. Errbody gonna be gittin' days. Hunting and fishing would slow you down. There is a ton of food in the US. Loads of shelf stable stuff, bringing loads of food would not be a priority. Call me a fucker, but I would take anything not in direct possession of someone. Tore up store? Whatever is left is mine. Busted open vending machine? All your cokes are mine. Abandoned home? You'll not find any top ramen when you get back.
This is a very dangerous and extraordinary circumstance. Short of assault, directly stealing from people and murder the gloves are coming off. Gun in people's faces, clipping with batons, and harsh language will be the order of the day. Your unused bike? Mine. The food in your looted store? Mine. I find a rifle? Mine.
Sorry, it's me vs the unwashed mass and I'm not going to lose because of some moral high ground. I'm not going to screw anyone over. I'm not going to steal from people but any booty on the battlefield is all mine.
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Post by Browning35 on Feb 4, 2016 15:50:14 GMT
Well, this is what I'd have with me. Took a look just cause I was curious as it hasn't been inventoried in awhile. In the truck : Tool kit (rope, jumper cables, fix o flat, some screwdrivers, Allen wrenches, crescent wrench, vise grips, pliers, channel locks, duct tape, Maglite, 4 pack of D batteries), a 12 volt Kobalt trie/ball/whatever inflater, maps for Dallas/Ft Worth, fold out map of Texas and a mapbook of the entire US road system, wool emergency blanket, baby wipes, somewhere between several bottles of water and a full case, sheet plastic for loads in the bed (guess I could turn that into a shelter), compass, zippo with a bottle of fluid, couple of bic lighters, 50 rds of spare ammo behind the seat, one bag of trail mix, one bag of Teddy Graham's and one bag of Goldfish crackers (kids like their snacks), little cardboard box of Capri Suns, one set of Wells Lamont cold weather gloves, one set of work gloves, one beanie, a bag of nickels, dimes and quarters and two loaded Glock 22 mags with X-Grip extenders in the door (I've taken to carrying .40's recently for some reason despite my love of the nine). A jack, 2 gallons of gas, some oil, transmission fluid, spare belt and a few other tools in the tool box on the back the truck. Then if I go out of State a medical kit and GBH bag consisting of...[see below]...go with. •Bandanna •Compass •Water purification tablets •Small first aid kit (basically consisting of some 4x4's, a cravat with some safety pins and some 1' tape) •Trauma shears •Large 5 inch safety pin •Multi tool •One Coghlan's waterproof bag •One trash bag •One firestarter log •50 feet of para cord •One MRE •One can of soup •1 bag of hard candy [Don't think I'd make 300 miles on one can of soup, a single MRE, some candy and some snacks. That would suck.] •Baby wipes •Swedish knife w/firesteel •SOL kit (fire starter, very small folding knife, signaling mirror, whistle, compass, tiny flashlight etc) •Water purification straw •One Orange spoon •Two disposable forks •One of those cheap orange whistles with matches inside and compass on top from Walmart •One sewing kit •Two emergency blankets of the foil variety •Camp soap •One of those little military fuel stoves and some fuel tabs (actually forgot that was in there, too bad I don't have more food ). •One steel blue speckled large coffee cup (boiling water or eating). •Gloves •CanOpener •(for some strange reason) a deck of playing cards (WTF?! Why'd those get thrown in there?).....goes with. Don't have a scale, but it's light. 15 pounds maybe. The little pack also has a Camelback in it. •I added a bunch of packets of oatmeal. Deficienct on food. Much of the GHB is disposable if need be. I got one ripped off in my truck a few years ago filled with higher cost gear, so I made this one as low cost as I could while still keeping it worth a shit. Then I have a medical kit that I throw in on trips that contains everything from an USGI IFAK, to gloves, to Quik-clot, Benadryl, Aspirin, Phenergan, anti acids, anti-diarrheal, Ibuprofen, a shitload of gauze, trauma shears all the way to a OB kit. Normal stuff I carry on me : Glock23, couple extra mags, holster & mag carrier, folding knife, phone, wallet, flashlight, pepper spray, baseball cap, glasses, necklace, wedding ring. Half the time I carry a backup gun on me anyway, on trips I definitely bring a second gun and more ammo. I always bring at least a few hundred bucks in cash on trips. Also have a solar charger and 3 spare batteries for my phone along with the cord in a camera case, but I guess in this scenario it wouldn't be all that useful. So if I couldn't get the truck going again and I couldn't call for help for someone to come get me (EMP or solar flare) I guess I'd cannibalize the truck for what I could reasonably carry and start walking.
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Post by Gingerbread Man on Feb 4, 2016 15:58:11 GMT
I'd like to have my meds too as well as caffeine pills. No dose go me through a lot of hard pushes. Give me a head ache and make me thirsty but damn, super bunny for the long haul.
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Post by LowKey on Feb 4, 2016 16:30:36 GMT
First....where is home? It makes a difference. Are there any rivers flowing in that general direction? Can I make a raft and float there, or even just take a big chunk off the distance I have to walk? How about rail lines? It's post-EMP and the trains aren't running (or else I'd be driving my own vehicle) so there isn't much of a safety risk being on the tracks. Walking them may very well be a straighter course home and also help me avoid other people. If I was really slick ('cause I knew I lived near a few rail lines) I'd have a fold-up bike and one of those rail adapter outriggers and I'd pedal all the way home. But for the sake of discussion, let's assume shanks mare is my only transport. Equipment- Clothing-Good ankle height boots, all leather construction, NO GORTEX. Norwegian welt sole....none of that glued crap. Wool socks, 5 pairs. I'll be changing them every 2-3 hours. Gaiters. Merino wool watch cap. Merino wool thermals, 2 pair. 1 pair M1951 wool pants (if my regions temps don't tend to dip lower than 20's), Swedish wool cargo pants if it often gets lower than that. Pendleton or Woolrich wool shirt. Rag wool gloves. Trigger mittens (mil-surp) Uninsulated Cotton duck Barn coat (including hood), treated with a homebrew oilskin mix. Army Surplus wool scarf. Army surplus wool sweater. Army poncho Army poncho liner. Goggles (Wiley-x style) Tools-9mm handgun**, 5 loaded mags (+P+). No loose ammo (If I use more than 5 mags I'm in an early release of Fallout 5), preferably with an RMR. Mora knife. Folding saw (if the area has woodlands. If open plains, a small shovel). Shelter, cooking, fire, and water-10x10 silnylon tarp. 100ft paracord. 2 USGI canteens with canteen cups and one cup "stove" stand. 1 Bushbuddy-type stove (burns twigs, dry grass, pinecones, ect) 2 Platypus water bladders. Waterproof matchbox w/matches. 3 Clipper Lighters Package of hex fuel tabs. Big bottle of iodine water treatment tablets (I'm looking for fast...scoop up the water and go. Boil if/when I can, tabs otherwise.) Navigation-Map Silva compass Small LED light (zebralight) with red lens). First Aid Kit-Immodium (the big bottle) Motrin (the big bottle) Sudafed 4 Z-pacs 4 courses of ciprofloxacin 4 courses of Bactrim Cotton gauze pads Cloth based surgical tape Vet wrap Ace bandages Neosporin Moleskin (for blisters) Duct tape (for same) Medicated Vaseline (goes between toes and on foot to help prevent trench foot). Visine eye drops (would suck not to be able to see) Superglue Hygiene:Toothbrush Floss Carbolic soap (the real stuff) washcloth #1 (washing) washcloth #2 (toilet) And last but not least..... Energy-dense foods would be important, but nobody can carry 300 miles worth of food.
Food-
10 packs of lifeboat ration bars.* Boring, but it will get me down the road. Instant coffee. Tea bags. Sugar. Multivitamins. ***EDITED TO ADD*** I'm not expecting to wash any clothing other than socks and underwear in this time frame of less than two weeks. The wool shirts and pants are good for dealing with that. Wools is also good at keeping you warn even if wet, and I don't trust gortex to keep me dry on such a trek. While I don't have any numbers to hand, if you aren't counting the weight of the clothing I'm wearing the rest of it is pretty negligible, and should fit in a small pack without much problem. *Here's the math... A 200lb man burns approximately 106 calories walking 1 mile at 3 mph. So, 300 miles at 3mph= 100hrs of walking, or ten 10 hour days (give or take, and not unreasonable if your in decent shape). 300 miles at 3mph burns 31800 calories. 1 package of lifeboat ration bars is 3600 calories. 10 packs= 36000 calories. Each pack weighs about 13 ounces. 130 ounces is just a touch over 8 LBS. 8 Lbs of food is packable!
It would also be nice to have a portable ham transceiver so I could keep in contact with the wife at home..... **Okay, I fibbed. I'd be carrying a 10mm with hot loads. It's my carry gun, and where I live it makes sense because bears. But for lower 48'ers 9mm is also good.
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Post by Browning35 on Feb 5, 2016 14:36:07 GMT
I dunno, a bike or some other means of transport would be almost a necessity.
20 miles a day would be tough day after day if you aren't in top shape in your twenties or early thirties and 10 miles a day would take you a month.
On top of that imagine your small child and spouse is with you. Try covering that kind of ground with a small child.
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Post by Gingerbread Man on Feb 5, 2016 15:52:30 GMT
That would suck. I guess I'd stealing a couple of bikes.
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Post by LowKey on Feb 5, 2016 15:58:49 GMT
I On top of that imagine your small child and spouse is with you. Try covering that kind of ground with a small child. Fortunately the scenario posted has you working to "get back to your home and family". You're right that there's little chance of making that distance each day on foot while toting a rug rat. Now if you want a fast return home for you plus wife and child, then you should have taken a Royal Enfield with sidecar on your trip. Diesel bike, no electronics... compression Kickstart.
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Post by scbrian on Feb 5, 2016 17:32:18 GMT
I'm with GM. I'm looking for a bike preferably 2. I have ~ 1 week food in the bag, water tables, and other essentials. Always carry, or leave locked in car. My biggest ?Annoyance? losing all the tools in the truck. Full wrench set, full socket set and a few other toys. Not sure I could justify carrying the extra weight for 300 miles. for 30, sure, not 300. As to distance, people toss out mileage and numbers as if they are in a vacuum. Terrain needs to be considered as well. Over the holidays (Christmas - New years) I covered 50 miles in the forest in 4 days, full pack on. One of those days was 20 miles straight (Yes it sucked). Just this past weekend, I went up and down table rock mountain, ~8 miles. I dropped just as hard as I dropped on the 20. Expecting multiple 30 mile days is unrealistic. As a 1 day charge, sure, maybe even 2 days, but after that, not sure the average body can take it. :/ Caffeine? That's for vegetarians... I have pre-ban 15mg Ephedrine tablets in my truck for long drives, you thought caffeine wired you?? lol!
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Post by NamelessStain on Feb 5, 2016 17:56:57 GMT
Yea, even my plan for bugging out I only estimate 10 miles per day. Since I want to be on the low side for others in the group who I know 10 miles will be a major goal.
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Post by LowKey on Feb 5, 2016 17:57:53 GMT
Caffeine? That's for vegetarians... I have pre-ban 15mg Ephedrine tablets in my truck for long drives, you thought caffeine wired you?? lol! Ohhhh...the good stuff. Mini-thins.....hold it between your teeth until you have the water to wash them down to your lips....if you put them in your mouth first the taste will make you gag. 30 miles per day as an average over a two week period isn't unrealistic in most terrain in North America* IF the person is in reasonable shape, motivated and determined, paces themselves, and take frequent breaks BEFORE they start to suffer serious fatigue. The underlined part is where many, many, many folks screw up. It's the same reason I can keep working outdoors 12 hour a day when the heat is up around 140-150 F. Frequent short breaks even if your not feeling whipped just yet. If you wait until you feel tired it's too late. *Look at a map and see where you'd have to be to travel more than 30-60 miles to get out of bad terrain for walking. If your thinking about N-S in either the Rockies or Appalachians then you'd be better off coming out of the mountains and making the distance on the flatlands parallel to the mountains then cutting back in near your destination.
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Post by LowKey on Feb 6, 2016 4:51:04 GMT
Yea, even my plan for bugging out I only estimate 10 miles per day. Since I want to be on the low side for others in the group who I know 10 miles will be a major goal. I wouldn't aim for more than 10 miles per day on a bug out either, but that means my wife is with me. Racing back home to protect my wife in the immediate aftermath of a disaster that has a high probability of causing every borderline personality, every petty criminal, every malcontent, and every thug to go on a spree of robbery and looting....yup, I can average 30 miles a day. There will be price to pay physically, but I'll cover it in order to get home to my wife. 300 miles isn't something that bugs me. IRL I have to plan* on moving myself over 7000 miles to get back to her, and that's gonna be a bit tougher. *There's going to be a very upset sheik when he discovers one of his boats is missing.
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Post by scbrian on Feb 6, 2016 20:17:20 GMT
As we talk about this, I'm watching a friend of mine run an ultra marathon... Started at 8am and he's 35+ miles in at 3p. Only 17 hours or 65 miles to go... lol...
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