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Post by Gingerbread Man on Oct 2, 2015 13:57:26 GMT
Something I've been mulling over the past couple of days after my class and reading about the Westgate Mall attack. I do not feel like a sheepdog. I'd would defend myself and other but I don't feel a duty to do so. I do not feel I should shepard, coddle or protect them. If it's advantageous to my well bring or the well being of people, then I may if I deem it's necessary. I'm not a sheep. Cause, nope. I'm not even sure what that means it's kind of a fucked up way to view other people. Wolf? No way, harm or malice others is not my thing.
So, I don't see myself as any of these categories? What am I? An otter? Just a dood dipping doing his thing?
Not a cow, docile and sedate. A cat, aloof and detached? A crow bobbing around minding my own damn business?
Thoughts? |
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Post by nxp on Oct 2, 2015 14:21:18 GMT
Well, in the non-standard sense if I was (and am) in your position, I would actually view myself as a wolf - but not with malice, rather indifference (which could be as bad).
1) It's not my job to protect the masses, I'm not LEO and if I step in how do I know that those that are LEO won't treat me as an aggressor? Harsh to say, but fuck 'em, this ain't Hollywood and the only people I'm bound to protect are my own (my "pack" if you will).
2) A wolf/predator doesn't need to be malicious for the sake of sport, but it can be malicious if needed and action is called for and it suits to put the predator in a position of advantage. Ever carry in a location that's clearly marked "NO GUNS"? Congrats, you just proved the point.
3) Wolves aren't bad by nature - the same way sheepdogs aren't good by nature. The main difference between the two is that the sheepdog has an obligation to protect regardless the circumstance, where the wolf is merely indifferent and willing to use anything to it's advantage.
So yeah. I'm a wolf. I'm fine with that.
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Post by Browning35 on Oct 2, 2015 14:24:12 GMT
Personally never really liked that Wolf-Sheepdog-Sheep analogy.
Not so much because I dislike the comparison of people to animals (no one has any problem when they're compared to a fierce, regal, intelligent and good looking animal)...it's more because people bringing up such analogies are usually waxing philosophical about violence and that is usually accompanied by a bunch of bullshit, chest thumping and talk of what 'I'd do if I were there' without any thought to realistic capabilities, limitations, previous training, what weapons or equipment they carry 99.99% of the time or how the situation might play out where the person speaking starts out in the worst position possible.
I'm not talking about you GBM (never had a conversation with you where you were anything other than realistic as a mutherfucker), just saying generally.
Most people just have a problem with them being described as 'sheep' even if they are docile, incapable of decisive action, completely unacquainted with violence of any type and deathly afraid of a verbal confrontation with a boss over a long awaited raise let alone the possibility of getting shot in the head by a gunman to gain their loved ones a few vital seconds to escape in a trade-off.
I know what you're going for, but I think it might be more your own dislike of the analogy itself rather than being a whole separate category. If it is a separate category I'm in the same boat, I'm more than willing to help other people out, but my own family comes first and if it's a choice between securing their safety and trying to cast too broad of a net and save everyone (which might be out of my capabilities) I'm going to choose to save my family.
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Post by Gingerbread Man on Oct 2, 2015 14:25:52 GMT
2) A wolf/predator doesn't need to be malicious for the sake of sport, but it can be malicious if needed and action is called for and it suits to put the predator in a position of advantage. Ever carry in a location that's clearly marked "NO GUNS"? Congrats, you just proved the point. So yeah. I'm a wolf. I'm fine with that. #2 Yeah, I look at those signs and think, yeah right...
I guess it's wolf then. Indifferent, loyal to my pack and crew. Rest of you, I might help you but don't count on it.
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Post by Gingerbread Man on Oct 2, 2015 14:33:11 GMT
I'm not for violence at all but if violence is brought to me then I will be violent to the extent necessary.
That bugs me too, I'd have done this....really, when have you trained for that? When have you run a mile? Then done work? I'm not saying I can, but I'm also not throwing on the 5.11 tan vest with patches on it.
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Post by LowKey on Oct 2, 2015 15:53:02 GMT
People aren't animals, at least not in the sense of being "dogs", "cats", and "rats"*
The whole wolf-sheepdog-sheep thing is predicated on the underlying belief that the herd as a whole is what is valuable, not the individual, and that separated from the "herd" we're essentially dead and useless.
I call BS.
We're human. Primates...not canines.
Look at primate behavior, particularly Chimps, and you have a very good illustration of human behavior stripped of a lot of naval gazing and smoke and mirrors.
You're not a sheepdog.
You're not a sheep.
You're not a wolf, either.
You're a human, homosapiens, a primate, the Great Hairless Plains Ape; tool user and hunter. We do what is in the best interest of achieving our goals and ensuring our DNA gets passed along to the next generation. If that means we negotiate, we negotiate. If that means we fight, we fight. If that means we need to take a hit for the team, we take the hit. If it means we need to tell the team to piss up a rope and go our own way, we do.
You're a human being who is going to do what is best to ensure your offspring survive.
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Post by nxp on Oct 2, 2015 16:38:18 GMT
I'm not for violence at all but if violence is brought to me then I will be violent to the extent necessary. That bugs me too, I'd have done this.... really, when have you trained for that? When have you run a mile? Then done work? I'm not saying I can, but I'm also not throwing on the 5.11 tan vest with patches on it. Ran 5 this morning and then drove to hosp to get it on with a down machine. Baller, yo.  (for serious, I've been thinking of stashing an old nylon A bag full of plastic bags/rubber mulch/etc that won't rot down too bad at the mid point of my trail run so I can see how long I can slam the crap out of it in the middle of a good run...) |
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Post by dannusmaximus on Oct 4, 2015 23:47:51 GMT
I hate comparing humans to animals because it's an insult to animals. Quoth Ripley: "You know, Burke, I don't know which species is worse. You don't see them fucking each other over for a goddamn percentage." Animals do what animals do because it's what animals do. Nothing on God's earth acts with deliberate, willful, calculated cruelty to their fellow earthly traveler's except those made in His image...
But I digress. I would not compare myself to either a wolf, sheep, or sheepdog, but would only say that I am programmed by training, upbringing and life experience to try and help other people. That can be a good thing or a bad thing, I suppose. Sometimes helping others is detrimental to individual safety. I don't have a brood to worry about, and my wife is fully capable of getting along without me. I would probably stumble towards the sound of the guns, trying to help if at all possible. Might get me shot by cops, might get me killed by a gunman. I find it almost impossible to say "fuck 'em" if I think somebody legitimately needs help, but I pass no judgment at all on people who don't see things that way.
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Post by Gingerbread Man on Oct 4, 2015 23:56:38 GMT
Yes, if a tiger eats me I know why. It's because it's what the tiger does. Why someone threatens me with felon assault over bus money, well, it's not well...
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Post by Gingerbread Man on Oct 4, 2015 23:57:42 GMT
For the record, I fall on the side of helping. I'm just not 100%, i have others to help first.
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Post by dannusmaximus on Oct 5, 2015 3:51:18 GMT
For the record, I fall on the side of helping. I'm just not 100%, i have others to help first. Roger that. I think most decent people (and that includes all the regulars on this board) fall squarely into that camp as well, and rightfully so. I wouldn't think much of a person who did NOT make sure their family was safe first in an emergency. Taking care of your family first, whatever that entails, is low-hanging fruit. Imagine how easy it would be to respond to disasters if EVERYBODY took care of their immediate family? Shit, you wouldn't need any hosehumpers or law-dogs at all!
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Post by LowKey on Jul 8, 2016 9:45:34 GMT
Hmm...ran across the term "Gamma Rat", and it seems to fit.
Just as qualified/tough to be the dominant boss rat but who is completely indifferent to the social order...doesn't want to be boss or push others around but will f*** up any rat that keeps pestering him.
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