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Post by omegaman on Sept 28, 2014 14:22:14 GMT
OK, so I want to start the discussion here about self defense ideas and techniques for those times we find ourselves restricted to no guns and (sometimes) no knives. GMB, if you want this somewhere else, feel free to move it. My idea for this thread is to tangent off of the Oklahoma moonbat be-heading a co-worker. Often times, work places have policies that forbid firearms. School, especially, have very strict policies on weapons. Let's not forget airports/airplanes, either. Maybe the best soluction for some is to say, "fuck it", and carry regardless. Is it worth the risk? It is worth discussing. I returned to college after a kick-ass five years in the Marine Corps. My defense posture and hyper-alertness were still firing on all cylinders. I found peace of mind by keeping a level 4 ballistic plate in my backpack--giving me a de facto plate carrier. Carrying a pistol on campus was not worth it to me, as I did not want to squander the incredible opportunity to attend a top university for free. Of course, I always carry a folding knife. Occasionally, I would add pepper spray or an ASP to my campus EDC--but, this eventually waned as I settled into a normal post-combat life. Now, well, I could mount a Browning .50-cal in the back of my work truck and nobody would care Admittedly, I am lax about CCW (even though I have a permit). I am rarely "in town" and, although Beaufort does have crime, local crime is relatively isolated.
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Post by dannusmaximus on Sept 28, 2014 14:55:44 GMT
Maybe the best soluction for some is to say, "fuck it", and carry regardless. Is it worth the risk? It is worth discussing. That's pretty much what I do, with the exception of Federal facilities or places where I know I'm going through a metal detector or security checkpoint (like airports or our local municipal buildings). I'm not willing to risk federal prison to carry in those cases, and those places also generally have armed security present. I carry a G19 with an IWB holster, and my general walkabout off-duty clothes of jeans/shorts and a t-shirt readily conceal it. I don't carry at work at the ER or fires station, but I generally do have my pistol either in my locker or (more commonly) in my car. We have armed security in the ER, and cops are usually either present or on standby at any fire department runs that seem wonky. I flagrantly ignore any 'no firearms allowed' signs at private businesses I go to. I figure the worst case scenario in most situations will be that somebody in charge sees the gun and asks me to leave, at which point I will say "Oh. Didn't see the sign. Sorry." and promptly leave. If I get busted at a school or library or some 'official' place and the person wants to make a big deal about a local FD Captain, honorably discharged U.S. Marine, and licensed handgun permit holder having a concealed firearm at their facility, I think my fellow Hoosiers would have my back. We are a gun-loving people, we are...
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Post by Gingerbread Man on Sept 28, 2014 15:25:55 GMT
GMB, if you want this somewhere else, feel free to move it. Hell nah I ain't movin' it. Anyway, y'all know I work at the FEDERAL building in Columbia. The big ugly one. Anyway, If I did carry anything that wasn't approved to work and were caught it would means federal time, loss of employment and loss of all benefits. NOPE. However, I do carry to work, leave it in the car and replace it when I get back to my car. I regularly ignore any sign that states no CCW as long as it's not state or federal. The sign must comply with state laws to be a lawful sign. They never do, at worst if they could detect me carrying they might ask you to leave. Basically, if you're concealing properly I don't see how they could ever find you out. At work it's just the Surefire E2E. That and my GI Joe Kung Fu Action SKILLZ. From what I've seen from the combatives of the federal agents, I don't anyone there poses a threat to me physically. The guards are actually pretty good about screening folks for weapons so I'm pretty confident. I also carry a spare blaster in my truck with spare mags and a box of 100rds of ammo. Coupled with a Cold Steel walking cane and a folder, I'm pretty confident.
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Post by Browning35 on Sept 28, 2014 18:50:47 GMT
I used to have to deal with these kinds of restrictions. That's why I didn't get a permit for so long, I wouldn't be able to carry at work as we were in and out of hospitals, nursing homes, jails, prisons, police stations and occasionally even the airport (we'd get caught out of district and were sometimes forced to pick up a transfer from the airport to hospital by dispatch). CHL holders can't carry by law in any of those places and 30.06 signs are plastered all over the front of all of them.
When I first started doing EMS and was assigned to a 24 hour shift (with 48 hours off) at a fire station all 3 crews (A, B and C shifts) had agreed to have this old S&W .38 Spl model 36 revolver that was kept in this centrally located compartment between the actual box and the cab before I'd gotten there. This was the result of a series of fucked up calls that they'd all gone on before I'd gotten there where one crew was beaten severely, another got stabbed repeatedly with a syringe wielding psych patient and another time the ambulance had gotten shot at and hit. There was a bunch of other stuff that happened, but I wasn't there or a part of it so I forget some of the other stuff that they said happened. Suffice it to say that in the late 90's our district was the Wild West.
They all pitched in and one guy bought it used at a gunshow. It was totally against company policy and was actually against the law. They thought of it like a fire extinguisher. Just a last ditch piece of equipment to save our lives if we were in the box and someone opened up on us and we couldn't get away.
Back then CHL's and the Castle doctrine didn't exist and if it had of been found we would have been in big trouble. So in retrospect it was a bit stupid and even if it had of saved our lives (not a sure thing at all as we might have been out on scene when something popped off and that location was just the best compromise possible due to concealability and the crews not wanting the thing found), but given where we worked at they felt like we had to have something. Plus I was new and I didn't want to rock the boat too much. Most of these guys were veteran paramedics from all during the 80's and 90's with 10, 15 and 20 years of service. Even with me being somewhat of a gun nut I wasn't ever entirely comfortable with it's presence, but I looked on it like it wasn't mine, I wasn't there when they came up with this idea and came to this agreement and I didn't pitch in for it, but that I could still use it to save my life as a last line of defense is something did happen.
Eventually a medic who didn't agree with having a gun on the box rotated into that station and while he didn't rat anyone out he didn't want it there and the guy who pitched in more than the others took it home. The odds of the ambulance being searched were really low, but still... Keep in mind that this was 1999 to 2001 and EMS was ALOT different than it is today. Now anyone even talking about keeping any sort of gun on an ambulance as a permanent piece of unofficial and illegal equipment without being a police officer somewhere and having a LE job along with a TCLEOSE certification would be looked on as being a loose cannon.
Years later after CHL's came into being some guys with permits carried at work anyway despite company policy and then just shoved it in a locked compartment when they went in some place that they weren't supposed to carry. I never did though, but I wasn't going to say anything about it either if I trusted them as a partner. My agreement with them was like 'Okay, but just remember that I didn't know shit about it and if something happens just don't shoot me by accident'.
Most crews just did what I did and carried knives, pepper spray or long mag lights. Pepper spray, knives longer than 4 inches and longer than 3-cell mag lights were specifically banned from being carried by company policy, but a lot of people just ignored that policy and carried that stuff anyway.
After I went on this one call where I had to bash in the window of a burning truck to try get to the occupant I also added a cheap hammer I bought at a hardware store to my work bag, but then I never got another call like that again where it would have been useful. Either that or the engine was actually on-scene and they just took care of it. I could've used that as a weapon in a pinch if I had to.
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Post by red on Sept 29, 2014 1:46:30 GMT
Well i live in one state and work in Maryland , so even if i had my home states permit it wont be good in Maryland. I work in a factory with tools and equipment so a pocket knife is cool as long as it conforms to Maryland law. Which is blade less then 3 inch's and non locking in the county i work in. On me i also have a 28 oz framing hammer , and a few throwables like tape measure, putty knife ect. Also pneumatic nail guns and air blowers which found i can launch items out of. Deadly no maybe a discretionary thing maybe . So a active shooter i hide and make sure others get out/hidden, hand to hand i grab something and swing for the fences.
Looking at getting my home state CCW and a Florida CCW soon it may be enough to carry into Maryland legally
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Post by homerj on Sept 29, 2014 3:52:47 GMT
I too feel the pain in the limitations federal employees have IRT defending ourselves. I usually have at least two knives on me in uniform, my leatherman which is my tool/edc cutting knife and a knife dedicated to self defense which I alternate. To be honest I am pretty complacent or resigned to the situation my building has a cypher lock so I get to control who comes in and out of my building and where I am stationed is one of the safest large cities in the US and I grew up here so I am very comfortable with my commute. I have been considering a neck knife to wear during PT which is the only time during my workday I am unarmed but I doubt I can find anything that wont print too bad and wont be hitting me in the face during PT. I may end up modifying my PT belt to hide a belt knife that way.
I live about 30 min or so away from base, the daily commute is the only real time I wish I could carry. I alternate between my G19 and Kel Tec Pf9 during the weekends or weekdays after work.
This reminds me of a "good idea fairy" moment gone wrong when I was stationed at Fort Jackson, every quarter or so most Army posts have force protection drills, fire drills or other emergency type situation rehearsals. The company I was XO for was out in the boonies in the firing range area of Jackson, everyone there was an Infantryman 99% had CIBs and 70-80% had PTSD or other combat related issues going on. The powers that be thought it would be a good idea to do an active shooter drill in our area some dude ran in popping off blanks in a pistol. Freaked out allot of our guys and could have ended very badly, a couple guys took off out the door then hooked around and were about to bum rush the guy but luckily they had the sense to wear safety vests and yell "active shooter' all the time. It was a bad feeling to be sitting in your desk hearing rounds go off with only a pocket knife and broomstick in hand. The same geniuses did the same thing in the administration building where all the civilians work, we heard they were tripping out and crying all over the place.
During the whole ISIS in Juarez scare we had during the week of 9/11 I considered leaving something in my car but with all the random searches it wasn't worth it.
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Post by redeyes on Sept 29, 2014 4:24:06 GMT
Wow, that is messed up. I am not really sure what a good active shooter drill would look like. At the hospital I work at we have multiple fire drills and lost baby drills every month. We have never had an active shooter drill though. If we ever do have one it damn sure won't be someone shooting blanks out of a pistol.
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