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Post by omegaman on Sept 26, 2014 14:11:52 GMT
Thought I would start a thread where we can discuss our range business. Drill and training, zeros, targets, etc...
Here is what I have going on right now:
I live on alot of land. I mean, alot. I have a shooting bench and 100 yard zero range next to my office. I nice luxery and one of many perks of the jobs; however, not quite adequate for tactical training. In the past, I always used PVC target stands and they work great. I gave mine to Doc when I moved, and have yet to make more (OK, I have one that I use in my yard, but it drives my pregnant wife and dogs crazy--although it is nice to train in your bathrobe and slippers  ).
With that said, myself and some co-workers are slowly working on a dedicated range. Right now, we have a large berm and up to 200m distance (could probably get 300m if you want to set up a hide in our land manager's son's playhouse). Plans are to build a covered benches at 200 and 100m. I want to add steel. So, who has a steel target hookup??? What do I look for?
I will likely make a slew of PVS stands. I would also like to get some barricades and barrels. Of course, any help on this project would be appreciated. The fellows I work with are more concerned with zeroing hunting rifles, I would like a tactical component. Any ideas and plans would be greatly appreciated.
Anyway, what are y'all doing when you get some trigger time? |
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Post by NamelessStain on Sept 26, 2014 14:28:22 GMT
So, when do I need to come down?
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Post by Gingerbread Man on Sept 26, 2014 14:42:15 GMT
So, when do I need to come down? What he said. I use PVE stand and barrels at MCRC. They have a steel plate machine and they now allow steel plate targets as long as they're made out of AR500 steel. So, I'm going to have to invest in a couple of those. My range bag is set up with a 8x Vortex spotting scope which saves me walking back and forth on a live range. I also have a cheap Bushnell range finder that let's get get exact ranges for zeroing. A shot timer is a must and I've added a 20x60 power spotting scope. I carry mags for each of my guns. I hate forgeting a magazine. I have wrenches that fit my suppressors and gloves as well as two pairs of eye pro and ear pro. |
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Post by Browning35 on Sept 26, 2014 16:17:38 GMT
Plans are to build a covered benches at 200 and 100m. I want to add steel. So, who has a steel target hookup??? There's Caltrop that makes them on here. He also posts over @ ZS, but I forget what his name is over there. Maybe send him an email, he hasn't been on since April. Both my brother-in-laws make them (they're both welders) and I could ask them. They made some up in an hour including the stands that held up well to pistols for our shooting trip in AZ. Not so much to rifles.  They said that they had some different hardened steel that they've made up for other people apparently that'll withstand rifle-fire. They didn't have that readily available I guess. The stands were just 'A' frames made out of rebar. There's a bunch of online ads though, I'm betting you could find someone local. I got sick of punching paper that doesn't give much feedback, listening to the RO scream at dipshits who want to handle guns during ceasefires and all the other nonsense that comes with a public shooting range. So I bought a 'membership' at this primitive rural 'tactical' range. Been using the fuck outa that place. There is a RO out there, but they don't really end up doing much as most of the members I've met aren't doing anything unsafe. Mostly the membership just buys a place to shoot, a port-a-potty, someone to call EMS when someone passes out from heatstroke or bug bites and way reduced rates for classes. I've been hauling the small pile of impact plates I've collected out there as sometimes theirs are up and sometimes they aren't. I keep around some orange or white spray paint so that I can tell old impacts from the new ones. Unfortunately I'm not cool enough to live on property where I can just roll out my back door and shoot off my porch right now. We have the deer leases, but those are all a couple hundred miles away and can't shoot a whole lot there as it scares off the game. Once you fire a shot that's pretty much it unless you catch them moving away from the shot within the next few mins. Lately my wife has become more open to moving further out and we are house hunting, so maybe I'll get my own range after all. That would be badass. I'm a bit jealous that you can just go outside and shoot. I miss being able to do that. |
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Post by omegaman on Sept 26, 2014 17:19:27 GMT
So, when do I need to come down? Well after the baby gets here AR500 steel, huh? Needz me some. There's welding equipment in the shop...time to learn how weld... |
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Post by dannusmaximus on Sept 27, 2014 12:18:27 GMT
Thought I would start a thread where we can discuss our range business. Drill and training, zeros, targets, etc...
Well, here's a question for all of my internet gun guys, the answer to which I will use on my next range trip... Got my new middy AR, which still has not been taken to the range and zeroed. Sad. I do plan on going there within the next few weeks, however. My buttmaster has been thoroughly vetted as far as how it runs - - lots of rounds of lots of different types of ammunition in lots of situations. I need to do some type of similar vetting with the new Spikes Tactical middy. I don't anticipate that I will have any issues with it, but I do need to figure out the best combination of buffer weight considering the new mid-length gas system and new M16 carrier to make sure it runs if I want/need to run it hard. Anyway, plan is to get the irons and EOTech zeroed out with my standard 'deep stacked' 55 grain 5.56, since that is what I'll be using when the zombies rise. I am then going to confirm that zero and see how my current social loads operate (64 gr Winchester JSP) at a few different distances. After that, I was going to basically mag dump a full mag of each of the types of ammo I've currently got stocked. They range from Brown Bear to Wolf to PMC to Winchester white box to BVAC reloads, all 55 gr in .223 or 5.56. That will get a few hundred rounds downrange total, and the gun will have to eat a pretty wide variety of types. I can keep track of any ammo that I seem to have issues with. Does the above seem reasonable? Any other break in methods I should try? I don't have any classes coming up, and don't plan on going to war any time soon, so my chances to run the new rifle hard are fairly limited. I would like to at least do enough with it that I feel confident it is not a jam-o-matic or has other inherent problems on the off chance that I do go to a class or the zombies rise. |
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Post by omegaman on Sept 27, 2014 13:15:47 GMT
Dannus; I think that is a good plan. Quite the variety you have there!
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Post by Browning35 on Sept 27, 2014 14:10:19 GMT
Sounds reasonable to me. That's pretty much how I break in a rifle. Have you stuck in one of those BCM Extractor Spring Upgrade Kits (*Click*) yet? Besides just shooting a buttload of ammo, making sure that there aren't any issues and testing for accuracy to see what ammo that particular rifle likes and saving the targets and making a log of the targets and recording that and what problems it had (if any) that's the only upgrade I'll do right off the bat. - Slightly related admission : I had a bunch of Tula .223 that I bought for next to nothing that I was shooting just to get rid of and I had the mother of all stuck cases. I've had a few other stuck cases before this that came out with a few taps of the rod, but I actually had to take it to a smith to get pounded out. This thing would not budge no matter what I tried and the extractor ripped part of the rim off. Tried everything and couldn't get it out. Tula...never again. If I ever mention shooting it again punch me in the face or something. (So avoid that) |
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Post by Gingerbread Man on Sept 27, 2014 15:28:22 GMT
I had the exact same problem with Tula. I had to get a smith too, that sucked. My recent stuck case in my 7.5" Voodoo upper was an old rusted Wolf case. It took 3 pogos to get it out. I'm not at all impressed with any of the steel stuff, all in those cause and have caused the most malfs. 95% of the time it's fine but meh, I like my guns and feed them quality ammo with a brass case. AE, Winny, Remmy, doesn't matter but 99% of the problems with an AR go away with good ammo and good mags. That's not a high bar to achieve. Not sure who I'm writing that for since everyone here already knows that. I'll stand over here and have a cup of STFU now.  |
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Post by Browning35 on Sept 27, 2014 16:12:21 GMT
I had the exact same problem with Tula. I had to get a smith too, that sucked. My recent stuck case in my 7.5" Voodoo upper was an old rusted Wolf case. It took 3 pogos to get it out. I'm not at all impressed with any of the steel stuff, all in those cause and have caused the most malfs. 95% of the time it's fine but meh, I like my guns and feed them quality ammo with a brass case. AE, Winny, Remmy, doesn't matter but 99% of the problems with an AR go away with good ammo and good mags. That's not a high bar to achieve. I've actually had decent luck with Wolf, not so much with Tula. Wolf hasn't been lacquer coated in awhile. I don't know if Tula is or not. Maybe that's the difference, I don't know. That new Hornady ' training' and BTHP-Steel Match stuff is steel cased and that stuff is actually pretty awesome. So it's not so much that Wolf is all that great (it's not), it's just that Wolf's degree of suckiness (no lie, it's in my thesaurus as a word) is less than Tula because of how poor quality it is and how low on the totem they are. Must have gathered up all the drunks in Tula Oblast, Russia to work there and then given them the worst components. Haven't even been buying Wolf since that Hornady ammo became available. No reason to now since I'm going to that new range and I don't have to use SP, HP or BTHP (there was a FMJ ban at my other regular range). I prefer brass cased ammo, but with that ban on FMJ I was pretty much stuck shooting either former Com-bloc steel case JHP or remanufactured SP's due to how much ammo cost. Now I'm free to shoot M-193 to my hearts content. I'll be pretty much sticking to that Hornady steel match, M-193 or 55 gr. remanufactured SP. Once we move I'm setting my reloading equipment back up and making time to do it. Just because we all know something it doesn't hurt to post a reminder to tack that shit down even further. I knew Tula sucked to begin with and I still kept on using it because it was really cheap to shoot. Never had a case get stuck * THAT* bad before though. I mean it was practically a part of the rifle after that. |
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Post by dannusmaximus on Sept 27, 2014 16:13:41 GMT
Dannus; I think that is a good plan. Quite the variety you have there! Yeah, I actually had a plan with my zombie ammo stockpile (PMC), the rest of it has come in in dribs and drabs as I could afford it, or it became available, or as FD/PD buddies let me know they were putting in a mass order. I have a problem saying 'no' when it a friend comes up and says "Hey, me and some other guys are going to order 5,000 rounds of AR ammo. Want to get in on some of that?"  Browning, the Spikes upper I've got came with a bolt, carrier, etc. As far as I know it's the upgraded parts kit for the extractor. I can see the O ring, I didn't pay attention to what color insert or what coil type extractor spring. Thanks for the replies, fellas. I would prefer to vet the rifle by beating the shit out of it at a MilCopp class, but don't know of any of those on the horizon. |
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Post by as556 on Sept 28, 2014 2:24:31 GMT
Funny about the Tula. Some of you may remember I had a ZS thread about a brutal stuck case with Tula in my then new-ish PSA carbine. Relentless pounding with rods, days of sitting muzzle up in penetrating oil, freezing the upper, heating the chamber after ith a hair dryer...after basically everything, I went to the Smith. Pounded it right out for $35. I shoot almost exclusively steel now, despite my feelings at that time. Dont judge me. I've never had a malfunction other than a stuck case with Tula, personally. I don't keep track but I'd estimate I've shot between 600-800 of it.
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Post by LowKey on Sept 28, 2014 11:32:38 GMT
A little off-topic, but I'd suggest one of the criteria to use when selecting a range to patronize would be the attitude of the owners and their reasons for opening the range. The first formal range on my island opened in September, and this is their official mission statement-
"The Prince of Wales Shooting Club’s purposeis the encouragement of organized rifle, pistol, and archery shooting among citizens of the United States, resident in our community, with a view toward a better knowledge on the part of such citizens of the safe handling and proper care of firearms, as well as improved marksmanship.
It is our further object and purpose to encourage those characteristics of honesty, good fellowship, self-discipline, team play and self-reliance which are the essentials of good sportsmanship and the foundation of true patriotism."
Now, I'd much rather support a range which had such a stated purpose over one which cares more about being PC (enacting rules against human like targets, mag capacity on the range, restrictions on how many rounds you can fire in one minutes, ect).
For many years in the shooting community it seems it's been "wisdom", "non-nonsense", and "practical" to drop coin with a business based solely on lowest cost. It's time "we" start spending our cash exclusively with merchants and businessmen who support our point of view even if that costs us a bit more.
While we've been saving pennies, the "PC" crowd has been willingly paying a modest premium to support businesses which purport to back up their PC agenda. We need to catch up and do the same.
In my case that means purchasing membership at a range where I will in all likelihood rarely get to utilize the facilities for many years to come (I work abroad). I want to support them, both financially and morally (by doing my part to keep them in line with their stated goals).
Folks, use your $$$ wisely.
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