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Post by LowKey on Aug 11, 2015 13:27:40 GMT
Not to dampen your enthusiasm, but you might want to consider switching to HIIT (high intensity interval training)
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According to some research there may be a link between long distance (marathon/cross country type) running and heart damage and an odd spike in morbidity in the mid forties to early fifties in marathon runners. Something about damage to a particular area/type of heart muscle tissue and nerves.
What my layman self took away from it was that homo sapiens isn't set up to run at a steady pace for multiple hours, that we do better cycling throung sprint, trot, shuffle, sprint, trot, shuffle.
YMMV, and I wish I could remember where that link is.
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Post by nxp on Aug 11, 2015 19:43:04 GMT
Not to dampen your enthusiasm, but you might want to consider switching to HIIT (high intensity interval training) . According to some research there may be a link between long distance (marathon/cross country type) running and heart damage and an odd spike in morbidity in the mid forties to early fifties in marathon runners. Something about damage to a particular area/type of heart muscle tissue and nerves. What my layman self took away from it was that homo sapiens isn't set up to run at a steady pace for multiple hours, that we do better cycling throung sprint, trot, shuffle, sprint, trot, shuffle. YMMV, and I wish I could remember where that link is.  Why are you the Katrina to my Macy's? I don't know if a full marathon is on the bucket list, really. I can see where a half could be beneficial in the event of emergency movement sans vehicle. Bike would be better, just haven't had time to shop and pick one out (and practice riding). I do a little HIIT, though admittedly not as much as I probably should be doing. Besides, I have no interest in pissing off a wasp nest every few miles - although the ensuing sprint and elevated heart rates did meet the HIIT requirements. The White Devil (oldschool Airdyne) works just fine for HIIT. |
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Post by dannusmaximus on Aug 12, 2015 1:55:51 GMT
Not to dampen your enthusiasm, but you might want to consider switching to HIIT (high intensity interval training) . According to some research there may be a link between long distance (marathon/cross country type) running and heart damage and an odd spike in morbidity in the mid forties to early fifties in marathon runners. Something about damage to a particular area/type of heart muscle tissue and nerves. What my layman self took away from it was that homo sapiens isn't set up to run at a steady pace for multiple hours, that we do better cycling throung sprint, trot, shuffle, sprint, trot, shuffle. YMMV, and I wish I could remember where that link is. Why are you the Katrina to my Macy's? I don't know if a full marathon is on the bucket list, really. I can see where a half could be beneficial in the event of emergency movement sans vehicle. Bike would be better, just haven't had time to shop and pick one out (and practice riding). I do a little HIIT, though admittedly not as much as I probably should be doing. Besides, I have no interest in pissing off a wasp nest every few miles - although the ensuing sprint and elevated heart rates did meet the HIIT requirements. The White Devil (oldschool Airdyne) works just fine for HIIT. Keep running, homey. A 1/2 marathon is very doable, for almost anybody. I've run 4 of them (with unremarkable times), and they require very little additional training. I usually run 2-3 times a week for 3-4 miles. All I did as 'extra' was add a long run each weekend (I added 1 additional mile to the ong run each week and topped out at 11 miles as my longest run, I think). That's a very non-aggressive mileage increase, and on race day going the extra couple of miles is no biggie.
LowKey, for every person that suffers sudden cardiac arrest during marathon training, there are hundreds of thousands (millions?) of casual and serious runners whose health and quality of life are greatly increased by participating in that particular activity. HIIT is indeed good, but an otherwise healthy person can start a balanced running program with almost no worry about doing damage to their heart. Quite the opposite.
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Post by LowKey on Aug 12, 2015 12:50:20 GMT
Why are you the Katrina to my Macy's? I don't know if a full marathon is on the bucket list, really. I can see where a half could be beneficial in the event of emergency movement sans vehicle. Bike would be better, just haven't had time to shop and pick one out (and practice riding). I do a little HIIT, though admittedly not as much as I probably should be doing. Besides, I have no interest in pissing off a wasp nest every few miles - although the ensuing sprint and elevated heart rates did meet the HIIT requirements. The White Devil (oldschool Airdyne) works just fine for HIIT. Keep running, homey. A 1/2 marathon is very doable, for almost anybody. I've run 4 of them (with unremarkable times), and they require very little additional training. I usually run 2-3 times a week for 3-4 miles. All I did as 'extra' was add a long run each weekend (I added 1 additional mile to the ong run each week and topped out at 11 miles as my longest run, I think). That's a very non-aggressive mileage increase, and on race day going the extra couple of miles is no biggie.
LowKey, for every person that suffers sudden cardiac arrest during marathon training, there are hundreds of thousands (millions?) of casual and serious runners whose health and quality of life are greatly increased by participating in that particular activity. HIIT is indeed good, but an otherwise healthy person can start a balanced running program with almost no worry about doing damage to their heart. Quite the opposite.
Guys, you're missing it. It isn't people dropping from cardiac events during the races. I'm also not saying that running the occasional half or full marathon is going to harm you(other than being sore). It's the massive ammont of long distance running done as part of training for the marathons that seems to be causing this particular type of damage to the heart, and it's not causing cardiac events while they're running.... it's causing them at other times during a persons normal daily routine. My suggestion would be to stick with HIIT for your training and conditioning, then just go run your marathon when you feel up to it. |
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Post by dannusmaximus on Aug 12, 2015 15:32:13 GMT
Keep running, homey. A 1/2 marathon is very doable, for almost anybody. I've run 4 of them (with unremarkable times), and they require very little additional training. I usually run 2-3 times a week for 3-4 miles. All I did as 'extra' was add a long run each weekend (I added 1 additional mile to the ong run each week and topped out at 11 miles as my longest run, I think). That's a very non-aggressive mileage increase, and on race day going the extra couple of miles is no biggie.
LowKey, for every person that suffers sudden cardiac arrest during marathon training, there are hundreds of thousands (millions?) of casual and serious runners whose health and quality of life are greatly increased by participating in that particular activity. HIIT is indeed good, but an otherwise healthy person can start a balanced running program with almost no worry about doing damage to their heart. Quite the opposite.
Guys, you're missing it. It isn't people dropping from cardiac events during the races. I'm also not saying that running the occasional half or full marathon is going to harm you(other than being sore). It's the massive ammont of long distance running done as part of training for the marathons that seems to be causing this particular type of damage to the heart, and it's not causing cardiac events while they're running.... it's causing them at other times during a persons normal daily routine. My suggestion would be to stick with HIIT for your training and conditioning, then just go run your marathon when you feel up to it. Blah, blah, blah. LowKey, we get it. You're desperately looking for an excuse to stop running and turn into a fat, gelatinous blob. Just be fat and lazy, homes! No need to invent fake 'health issues'. We'll love you even when you need a powered chair to haul your giant ass around, and your wife has to type responses for you because you're fingers are too fat to hit one key at a time! In all seriousness, though, you can't just 'go run a marathon when you feel up to it' without increasing your running mileage. Doesn't work that way, any more than setting a bench press goal of 350 and not gradually increasing your weight would (just keep doing pushups and go for your max bench when you feel like it!). I defy a person whose long runs are in the 5-6 mile range to run another 20, regardless of how many wind sprints they can do. ASLO, it's kind of a myth that you have to do massive amounts of long-distance running to train for a marathon. For a casual runner, there are plenty of programs out there that don't have you running more than a few times per week, and only have occasional long distance days. |
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Post by LowKey on Aug 12, 2015 20:33:49 GMT
mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/well/2014/03/12/what-running-can-do-for-the-heart/?referrer=breakingmuscle.com/endurance-sports/endurance-training-is-bad-for-your-heartAgain, I'm not saying don't run a marathon. I'm not saying don't get in shape for one. What I'm saying is use HIIT to get to that level of cardio fitness to pull off a marathon. Run then walk then jog tjen run, rinse wash and repeat. Do that for 50 miles if you want. Just don't get out there and run at 7—8 mph for the whole 20+ miles. Or 3mph...or whatever your usual pace is. You're deaf right you can't get ready for a marathon by doing wind sprints. You can, however, do it by covering the same distance in training with HIIT. You'll still be doing the same distance in one shot, you're simply vaying the pace (and thereby your heart rate). Try not to stroke out on us, m'kay?
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Post by dannusmaximus on Aug 12, 2015 22:12:54 GMT
mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/well/2014/03/12/what-running-can-do-for-the-heart/?referrer=breakingmuscle.com/endurance-sports/endurance-training-is-bad-for-your-heartAgain, I'm not saying don't run a marathon. I'm not saying don't get in shape for one. What I'm saying is use HIIT to get to that level of cardio fitness to pull off a marathon. Run then walk then jog tjen run, rinse wash and repeat. Do that for 50 miles if you want. Just don't get out there and run at 7—8 mph for the whole 20+ miles. Or 3mph...or whatever your usual pace is. You're deaf right you can't get ready for a marathon by doing wind sprints. You can, however, do it by covering the same distance in training with HIIT. You'll still be doing the same distance in one shot, you're simply vaying the pace (and thereby your heart rate). Try not to stroke out on us, m'kay? From the NYTimes blog: "Over all, Dr. Taylor said, the study’s data suggests that if you’re training for a marathon or otherwise doing frequent and prolonged endurance exercise, you’re probably not hurting your heart and are likely strengthening it." As far as the 'Breaking Muscle' blog, the studies linked in the article seem to be heavily weighted towards competitive marathon runners (those really skinny guys/gals that are always in the front of the line at Boston and whatnot), people who had done dozens or hundreds of marathons over the course of their life, or some poor bastard mice who were evidently put on the same schedule as people who are competitive marathon runners. A casual runner, or a person who runs an occasional distance race? Not an issue. SO, HIIT = good. I do it myself, usually because I want to up my calorie burn but can't (or refuse to) take the time to run additional mileage at my slow, sloppy pace. I would NOT personally use HIIT to train for a distance race, and think the cardiac risks in doing higher mileage training for an occasional longer distance race is a non-issue. That said, we're just two middle-aged dudes giving our opinions on fitness. I'll throw in a penny if you will, which will give us the proverbial 2 cents that our advice is actually worth...  |
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Post by nxp on Aug 17, 2015 16:51:21 GMT
Welp, yesterday was the day. The sister's 5K run had to go off at 5pm on one of the hottest days of the summer with a heat index in the high 90's, and while the course had a mix of shade and open areas, it heavily favored wide open under the hot sun. We stretched out, got the pre-race instructions, lined up and with a sad fart from the airhorn we (and a bunch of others) were off. Pace started okay, but high heat, a half mile uphill, and a reasonable headwind knocked it down quickly and the grumbling/whining started early. No worries, things were in hand after the first mile and by that time we'd be pushed back far enough we weren't in the way of folks passing us. Mile two injected a minor amount of XC as we had to cross a soccer field - thankfully no ankles were twisted. Just as we rounded the final corner to make the last lap around the quarter mile track we got to see everyone taking the group picture... that brought out some more grumbling but still we plodded on around the track while the DJ blared "Call Me Maybe" (itz my jam, yo), and crossed the finish line with a time of 44:15.09. Oi.  My usual time for a 5K is low 20's, but this run was flat out hard being a cheerleader for that long and encouraging her to keep running when folks were walking around us. Still, she did it. She ran her very first 5K - something she never thought she'd do. I was proud of her, I don't know if she was proud of herself (not going to lie, the group pic while we were finishing up was kind of a kick in the nads and I pointed it out to the race director afterward... dipshit needs to account for all runners on the course regardless their position)), but I told her it's not where you finish for your first race - it's how you finish, and in this case we were still running and smiling and not on a stretcher headed for the med tent. Now we gotta work on getting that speed up a bit...  |
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Post by nxp on Sept 6, 2015 15:29:34 GMT
Captains log - stardate some obscure number that has little to do with an excepted method of tracking daily intervals -
Milage is now at 28miles per week and counting, with this morning's entry at 8 miles holding a pace of 10:20. Everything was dandy until the damn bridge over lake appeared. The combination of the multilane freeway with the wind coming off the lake made for a combine total of suck until the apex of the bridge finally appeared then it was a reasonable coast down to the other two bridges and the turn around in the park-n-ride. Then I had to turn around and do it again to get back to the car. At least most of the wind was at my back this time. Humidity was outrageous, I think I lost 2 pounds in sweat alone. I need to get my pace under 10:00, more work will be needed.
Also as school is now in session, with NXPette now OFFICIALLY a kinder-student, I need to swing my workout schedules around as I just can't find time to get all my training in, weights in, work in, kid pickup/dropoff in, and dinners made in a day any more.
Weights will move to MWF, conditioning runs to TuThSa with long run on Sun; all early mornings. If sis still wants to run with me, she's going to have to work into my life - I can't be loosing an hour plus after work to run with her for a couple miles, it throws the my entire family schedule out the window. I've showed her the door, she needs to step through.
Grumble. Stupid life. Grumble.
Edit to update -
Soooooooooooooooooooo yeah. I screwed the pooch. Apparently it can take a day or so before your body says "hey dummy, guess what you did when you were powering through that 8 miler?" A couple rounds of NSAID's and some ice later, and a few days on the mend from an itis on the medial side of my knee, and I'll be starting back down in the 3mile range again working up.
Confidence can be a MF'er when you're riding high.
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Post by Gingerbread Man on Sept 21, 2015 12:07:02 GMT
Hear dah BIRD!
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Post by dannusmaximus on Sept 22, 2015 2:45:47 GMT
I like the message of Mr. Birdsell in general, but right after he talks about 'small clicks' to get you where you want to be with your rifle, he essentially says to get where you want to be physically you need to stop smoking, eliminate carbs,stop drinking beer,stopdrinkingsodastartchartingallyourdietaryintakeswithacomputerspreadsheetstopdrinkingGatoradecutoutsugars......
Jeez. If I was just getting interested in a healthy lifestyle and watched that video I would say "Fuck it. If it's that goddamn hard I'll just be fat."
Settle down, bro. Whatever happened to those small clicks?
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Post by Gingerbread Man on Sept 22, 2015 10:10:44 GMT
Ha! That's funny.
I like small clicks, I always have and I think he's right. I think he was more saying what he does but advises that in the beginning you need to make small clicks. I agree though, people eat way too many carbs, too much soda and Brawndo. I think if you're an Olympic athlete then the spread sheet is an excellent idea but the average guy/gal, no. Paying attention or using a fitness app is good enough for managing a diet.
I do agree that the best way to tunrnt down the smokes, drinks and carbs is with small steps and tracking. I bet this was in response to being asked a billizzzoons times what he does.
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Post by nxp on Oct 4, 2015 0:22:36 GMT
Race report for MFM2015 5 miler! It was pushed through work, so we could either sign up for the 2 mile walk/run or a 5 mile competitive run - guess who has two opposable thumbs and may have a small competitive streak in him.... Anywho it was cheap and they give you a longsleeve T so no laundry for a day, right? Right.
Lined up in brisk 50F weather with a stiff 15mph wind from the east, and was making me second guess the whole tech shirt, ball cap and short-shorts waiting for the national anthem to finish up, but before I knew it we were off with a fart of an airhorn.
Out the gate - holy crap a bunch of people peeled out, maybe staging in the back wasn't the best idea... Pace 8:50
Mile 1 - I've already made up half the folks that burned out of the start, there's a chick next to me who's headphones are so loud I can hear Tokyo pop from 4 feet away. She's pacing me, not real sure I'm diggin' it - but she's breathing pretty hard, that's probably not a good sign. Pace 8:49
Mile 2 - Wind, sweet fancy Moses the wind. And I'm a sail; a cold, lime green colored sail and trying to gain ground. Damn midgets and shorties are bucking it better than I am, I duck behind a dude pushing a two up stroller to cut what I can and pass at the last minute. I think drafting will be my downfall later..... Pace 9:16
Mile 3 - More wind, but at least this time it's from the side. I run up to two guys, we chat for a quarter mile about nothing, and the I move along. Pace 8:34
Mile 4 - No wind, but now I'm getting hot. Starting to think I should have worn a short sleeve shirt instead of the long sleeve. Starting to jam up with people now as folks drop back. I spot my target, the last stroller pusher is 200yds out and moving. Its the last one, I refuse to loose to a stroller. Get the pace faster, but she's upper hers also. Dang it. I'm reeling her in, but I'm running out of course. In the end she beats me by less than 80 feet. One more mile and I would have had her. Pace 8:15
Clocked at 43:48 with gas still in the tank. Yay, but boo at the same time.
What I learned - stage more appropriately; it's okay to be conservative on pace initially, but get in the groove faster and use that energy; don't give the wind an inch; running on concrete sucks compared to trails; carrying a cellphone sucks, a GPS watch is a better option; I hate strollers.
All in all it was fun, showed me what I need to work on, and that while not spectacular for times I'm definitely proud of knocking almost 2 minutes off my pace from as little as 3 months ago. If I can keep this going strong through winter (ermahgeshitzodamkold) I think a 25K is doable come spring/late winter.
Fun stuff.
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Post by nxp on Oct 4, 2015 21:11:09 GMT
How do you follow up a great run? With an awesome LSR, of course (Long, slow run). Did a 7 miler (and change because my dumbass can't remember the street routes in town) that had a mix of crushed trail and blacktop/concrete for the length around the river/campus. Pace sub 10:00 Finished with beer; lovely, lovely 25th anniversary brandy barrel aged imperial pumpkin lager from the brewery at the trail head - I run for beer. Cardio. Get yo ass outdoors and do something!   Fo' reelz, I feel like I'm whoring up this post. |
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Post by dannusmaximus on Oct 4, 2015 23:36:16 GMT
Finished with beer; lovely, lovely 25th anniversary brandy barrel aged imperial pumpkin lager from the brewery at the trail head - I run for beer. Of interest, perhaps... madisonh3.com/about-2/ |
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