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Post by dannusmaximus on Dec 30, 2013 15:40:24 GMT
Folks, I would post this on ZS, but I don't want to be subjected to the stupidity and the "you should read all 3,709 pages of the 'Build your own AR Thread' before you dare post such questions!" backlash. So, in no particular order... - Is there any, and I mean ANY performance reason to either buy a complete mid-length AR or buy a middy upper to use on an existing AR? They just look fucking cool, but I work for a living and that's probably not a good enough reason to spend a bunch of coin when it could be used for other more pressing stuff.
- I've got a Bushmaster M4 carbine that has run like a top, but I'm aware that BM isn't exactly Tier 1 grade stuff. Any issues that you can see with swapping out uppers and keeping the BM lower?
- I've got a H2 buffer in the buttmaster, would I need to swap back to the factory weight for a mid-length if I just swapped uppers?
- Any other modifications I would need to make to swap out the carbine upper with a mid-length if I was keeping the BM lower receiver?
- Overall length of the mid-length barrel with a compensator attached would be around 18", correct?
- What problems would I run into (if any) if I bought a mid-length barrel and just swapped barrels? What do you have to do to make the gas system work?
As far as optics... - I've currently got an EOTech 511 (N-cell batteries) on my BM. Battery life is crap, and I want to upgrade to the XPS-2. Fair price for a used 511, slight blemishes but otherwise in great shape? I would be selling it to help pay for the new HWS, would likely post on ZS Trading Post and Ebay. The box has been lost to history, so I'm just selling the sight and manual.
- Any reason not to get an XPS-2 and instead get a different flavor of EOTech?
Thanks in advance for the input!
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Post by Gingerbread Man on Dec 30, 2013 17:19:32 GMT
Folks, I would post this on ZS, but I don't want to be subjected to the stupidity and the "you should read all 3,709 pages of the 'Build your own AR Thread' before you dare post such questions!" backlash. So, in no particular order... - Is there any, and I mean ANY performance reason to either buy a complete mid-length AR or buy a middy upper to use on an existing AR? They just look fucking cool, but I work for a living and that's probably not a good enough reason to spend a bunch of coin when it could be used for other more pressing stuff.
- I've got a Bushmaster M4 carbine that has run like a top, but I'm aware that BM isn't exactly Tier 1 grade stuff. Any issues that you can see with swapping out uppers and keeping the BM lower?
- I've got a H2 buffer in the buttmaster, would I need to swap back to the factory weight for a mid-length if I just swapped uppers?
- Any other modifications I would need to make to swap out the carbine upper with a mid-length if I was keeping the BM lower receiver?
- Overall length of the mid-length barrel with a compensator attached would be around 18", correct?
- What problems would I run into (if any) if I bought a mid-length barrel and just swapped barrels? What do you have to do to make the gas system work?
As far as optics... - I've currently got an EOTech 511 (N-cell batteries) on my BM. Battery life is crap, and I want to upgrade to the XPS-2. Fair price for a used 511, slight blemishes but otherwise in great shape? I would be selling it to help pay for the new HWS, would likely post on ZS Trading Post and Ebay. The box has been lost to history, so I'm just selling the sight and manual.
- Any reason not to get an XPS-2 and instead get a different flavor of EOTech?
Thanks in advance for the input!
Yes, you can just swap barrels, super easy but you'll have to get a new gas tube of the appropriate length. I think the BM upper and lower are just fine. My problem with BM is quality control and they don't torque they're barrels to spec. Anyway, just get a barrel and gas tube and hook it up yourself. It's easy. As far as barrels, I recommend DD CHF. PSA is you feel like it. REally, you could almost get a PSA CHF middy complete for the price of the DD. Either/or. I'd keep running the H2 buffer. Overall length with comp should be about 18", yes. I don't like the N Cell EOtech. I like and prefer the 512 the uses AA bats. I have to swap bats about once a year so I don't see the added expense of the 123 cell models. Really, a good set of AA bats are way cheaper than 123s. The only way I'd go with 123 model is if I had a duty rifle. I don't. Fair price on a N cell, $150-200. Forgot to answer the question about if it's worth it. I prefer middy, much smoother, just as reliable. I don't know the condition of your barrel but probably not. |
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Post by redeyes on Dec 30, 2013 18:09:32 GMT
I use a middy but that is only because I prefer the longer handguard. You shoot better than me with your carbine length handguard so I dunno if the extra length will help. You should have no issue with swapping uppers and keeping the BM lower. No mods should have to be made to the lower.
I have heard that midlength uppers have a little less recoil and a little less wear and tear on parts. I dunno if that is true.
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Post by Browning35 on Dec 30, 2013 19:12:16 GMT
What twist rate is that Bushie? Is it a 1/9?
When I gave AR's another chance (I had an extremely bad experience with one in the early 90's) I started out again with a RRA in 1/9. I've had a really good experience with that gun. Sounds like it's been basically a mirror of your experience with that Bushie. It has a high rd and it's done everything I've asked of it except for have the 1/8 or 1/7 twist rate I wanted because at the time I was starting to get into hog hunting in a big way and I wanted to shoot larger grain bullets to anchor them better. So that was all the reason I needed to progress further in my AR-disease and get another one. Sounds like the same thing has happened with you.
Performance-wise you'd probably get less parts breakage over time if you're a 100,000 rds a year shooter and shooting 250-300 rds a day if you switched to a Colt/BCM/DD/Noveske, but most people (myself included) don't fall into that category.
Generally the reasons to buy a better brand of AR for people who are taking one or two classes a year, along with some 3-gun once a month is because of increased durability and reliability over the course of a number of years. I'm not a professional gun trainer or professional competitor, so the reason why I buy boutique brands now is more spread over the long term.
No, on the 'Coyote Popper' with that BCM upper I switched out back and forth for awhile with that Stag Arms 6.8 lower before I got that Noveske lower.
According to my tape measure it's 17 and 1/2. I don't think that 1/2 matters much though.
I don't know unfortunately. Haven't done a barrel change yet.
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On EOTech's the only one I've ever owned is a 512. AA batteries just make sense for me. It's heavier and larger than some of their other models, but I don't have to go any further than the local gas station to find them.
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Post by dannusmaximus on Dec 30, 2013 20:57:00 GMT
Good input gents, thanks for that.
I like the idea of the different twist to stabilize heavier bullets. My BM is a 1/9, having a 1/7 would be nice. Sounds like swapping the barrel might be the way to go, but having the complete upper... so convenient! Any special tools needed for a barrel swap? Is the gas tube diameter and port the same for a carbine and middy?
I hear everybody on the 512. That's what the wife has on her AR, and it's good to go. Relatively cheap, no-brainer availability of batteries... I *heart* the size of the XPS, though. GAAAAAH!
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Post by Gingerbread Man on Dec 30, 2013 22:25:46 GMT
Yes, you need a barrel wrench and upper receiver block to swap barrels. Apart from that, brute strength. The diameter of the tube and port aren't different, just the length of the tube. I looked at PSA and they have a few 16" chf uppers with bolts under $399.
If size and bats are factors you may want to look at the aimpoint pro.
If youre concerned about the tools, you can borrow mine. No worries.
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Post by nxp on Dec 31, 2013 0:19:59 GMT
What FSB's on your Bushy? If it's an A2, you will also need a small drift punch to get the gas tube out. Don't worry about taking the FSB off, leave it on. With the new barrel try to get one with the gas block/ring/HG cup (if required) already on it. Just makes things faster.
I was actually surprised as all hell when I did my first barrel swap. Almost as easy as changing a barrel on a Savage bolt action (but you don't need to worry about headspacing). It's much ado about nothing. Speaking on which, I need to start looking at either a pencil weight 300BLK barrel to build a lightweight poodle popper for next season.
AFA the middy, I'm in the camp that while I use my rifle - I'm not going to drop another 4+ bills on an upper when the carbine has yet to fail me. I'm not as highspeed as some, but the one I got has no issues running upside down, covered in crap, with cheap soviet catpiss infused steel cases.
ETA - as an owner of a 511, I feel your pain. New poodlepopper will have a 1-4x on it, though.
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Post by rickoshea on Dec 31, 2013 21:53:03 GMT
I will be the odd-man and say that I do like the XPS Eotechs and their CR123 batteries. My weapon lights use CR123 batteries, so I usually keep 2 spares in the pistol grip and a single in the stubby VFGs (on the rifles that do have Eotechs)......Then again, I have at least seven dozen CR123s in the old prep room.
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Post by dannusmaximus on Jan 2, 2014 15:54:18 GMT
Thanks again for all the good scoop, guys. I do appreciate it. I almost hate having a little extra coin laying around. It makes me tempted to do dumb shit like tinker with and/or replace perfectly functional carbines and sights just because I 'want to'. If anybody wants to be the voice of reason and post something like "dude, dump that extra grand in your IRA" or "use that money to jump start your bathroom remodel" feel free to do so now...  |
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Post by Gingerbread Man on Jan 2, 2014 18:24:15 GMT
All my ARs except the SBRs are middies. I think it's the system for a 16" barrel. Personally, if you get one I'd buy one of the built PSA ones with a Midwest industry rail on it. I think they're on sale for like $399. Slap a 512 and some magpul flip ups, done. Or get one of their complete lowers for another $150ish and call is a complete gun. Save the BM for the next panic and get your grand back.  |
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Post by Browning35 on Jan 2, 2014 21:22:38 GMT
If anybody wants to be the voice of reason and post something like "dude, dump that extra grand in your IRA" or "use that money to jump start your bathroom remodel" feel free to do so now... Nah, where's the fun in that? You're lucky we didn't tell you to shack up in a hotel room with hookers and cocaine for a day or two. unsure/blue text I'd never tell you to dump it into an IRA. Maybe the bathroom depending on if it really needed it or not. Décor changes after two years? Not a chance. Something real because it's broken, there's going to be damage done or something of that nature...yeah, do what you gotta do. We're a bunch of gun addicts though, what'd you expect? |
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Post by doc11 on Jan 6, 2014 4:42:27 GMT
I run a bushy lower on one of my rifles and have no problems with it.
I am about to change out one of my Carbines to a Middy as well. I like my middy that I have, and I want another. I think that the middy is worth the cost and effort if only because the felt recoil pulse is smoother and shorter IMO than a carbine, which translates to faster recovery time.
I still run the EoTech 512 simply because the AA can be found in the gift shop of any hotel I might be staying in with my travel rifle. I am also running a rifle sans optics and with just irons right now. I have to say that I like the set up for a travel rifle, which is what this one will become, more than likely. I have in my mind getting a small hard case and breaking the rifle down like a shotgun, then reattaching in the room. That's what I'm playing with at the moment. We shall see what really happens.
Get a power extractor for the BCG--if you don't already have this installed--it's a simply replacement that will give the rifle better chances of working in adverse conditions.
Don't get too caught up in the twist of the rifle. A 1/9 will stabilize the heavier bullets just fine for the ranges you will be shooting; you really aren't going to shoot much more than 400 meters probably, and the rifle will do that fine with that twist. That twist also keeps you in the 55 grain running at that distance. If you are going to shoot heavier bullets exclusively, than by all means, go for the 1/7. Otherwise, don't worry about it. Besides, you are not shooting a 12 or 14 inch barrel, so the 1/7 isn't really needed. Modern bullets are designed to work in that 1/9 to 1/7 twist.
That's my thought on it all.
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Post by dannusmaximus on Jan 6, 2014 16:34:14 GMT
All my ARs except the SBRs are middies. I think it's the system for a 16" barrel. Personally, if you get one I'd buy one of the built PSA ones with a Midwest industry rail on it. I think they're on sale for like $399. Slap a 512 and some magpul flip ups, done. Or get one of their complete lowers for another $150ish and call is a complete gun. Save the BM for the next panic and get your grand back. This what you're talking about, GM? palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/complete-uppers/16/m4-ss12g2-16-cmv-chrome-lined-stripped-railed-upper-without-bcg-or-charging-handle.htmlETA: This is obviously NOT what you're talking about, because it says 'carbine length gas system' in the description. FAIL! What all would I need to add to make this a 'swap out' upper assembly? BCG + charging handle + buffer tube + spring + buffer + stock? I've got 'extra' stock and charging handle. Rough estimate is another $200 or so for the remaining parts (tube, spring, buffer, BCG) ? If I didn't want to buy the BCG and wanted to swap out my existing BM BCM instead, is that a direct swap sort of situation? Saves some coin. Thanks for the additional scoop, doc11. And damn you all for not talking me out of this!!  |
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Post by Gingerbread Man on Jan 6, 2014 17:26:18 GMT
Well, if you went with the $399 PSA/Midwest upper all you'd need is that. Snatch out the BCG from the BM upper and you're done. The way the AR-15 head spaces you can drop in any bolt and be within tolerances. Remove the BM upper, swap BCG and put the new upper on your BM lower. Done.
If you want an entire 'nother gun, you'd need a complete lower and a BCG.
Just as FYI, the buffer tube and stock are part of the lower so you'd not need them on a upper swap.
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Post by dannusmaximus on Jan 6, 2014 19:29:19 GMT
Buffer tube and stock are part of the lower... *facepalm*  Jeez, what kind of newb forgets that... THIS NEWB, that's who! Thanks for the scoop. |
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