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Post by Gingerbread Man on May 29, 2015 14:37:41 GMT
See below, that's right can't copy/pasta on work computer.
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Post by Gingerbread Man on May 29, 2015 14:41:19 GMT
Da Bird says nah, dawg, you don't need back up sights. With an Aimpoint or a etched glass scope, I'd agree. With an EOTech, yes, the battery life is poop and require a set of back ups. An ACOG, I don't think they're necessary either.
I have back ups on all mine except my 6.5G with a 6x18 scope because there is no space to mount the rear. A front with out a rear is goofy. The 45 degree sights will not work either.
I'm playing around with 45 degree sights but is Billy on to something? Just go to handgun. I mean, in the middle of a scrap are you really going to hit the QDs and remove the optic, flip the backups up, and get back to it? That could take a long time. Or swap batteries in your dead red dot?
Thunks?
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Post by LowKey on May 29, 2015 15:56:25 GMT
I think he has a very good point.
I've always thought of buis as something to replace my optic if I've managed to destroy my optic (dropped it on a boulder, smashed it in a fall, ect), but not during an engagement. If batteries in my optic go down then I have a defacto ghost ring.
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Post by dannusmaximus on May 29, 2015 16:01:38 GMT
Don't ACOGs have pistol type BUIS built into them?
Meh. BUIS are cheap, and co-witness perfectly with my EOTech setup. I personally don't think the EOTech magnifiers are worth the weight and $$$, but to each their own.
Besides, some types of xenomorph might not even show up on infrared!! Derr! BUIS for alien suppression winz!
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Post by LowKey on May 29, 2015 16:12:59 GMT
Besides, some types of xenomorph might not even show up on infrared!! Derr! BUIS for alien suppression winz! Just back off and nuke them from orbit. It' s the only way to be sure. |
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Post by Gingerbread Man on May 29, 2015 16:30:25 GMT
I use and will continue to use back ups because if you optic goes dwon then I'll have some sort of aiming sistem. My philosophy is if I'm using a rifle it's either going to be very brief, like seconds or it's going to be a very, very long time. For those brief moments, not necessary. For those long, long times, yeah, I want them.
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Post by nxp on May 29, 2015 17:04:49 GMT
Etched recticles and permanently visible FO open sights (ala ACOG/Triji esque sights), yes - I don't see the need for irons. Battery powered LED/laser based tube sights (ala EOTech/Aimpoint), I'm on the fence, with the rational being that yes you have a humongous ghost ring for work that's relatively close, but you are sacrificing quite a bit of fine targeting for the sake of speed and field of view. Both of the above sort of give me fits because of potential issues with occlusion to the optics in the event of a glass/structure failure or debris, with the caveat that some of the sights have the option to shoot OVER the tube (ala ACOG), or at least have a rudimentary backup. Iron's are the cheapest way to have a fully functional tool that meets all the basic requirements of marksmanship, which is why they're on every military rifle made to date. Cheap, hard for Pvt. Snuffy to fuck up, and they typically can't be removed and lost on the battlefield/garrison. Ultimately, though, to anyone that's not in a combat enviroment, does this even matter? Combat optics are far different than non-combat optics, and for most people in CONUS (or in one of the territories  ), would they be necessary vs just a consumer desire? It's a royal pain to find a bolt action rifle with iron sights on it now, where 30years ago almost all of them had them. As the AR platform gains more of a foothold with the tradionalists (black rifles clash with red plaid and ear flap hats, you know), I think the A4/FFtube will become the standard (if it already isn't) that all of that "style" of rifle is made to allowing the user to decide if irons are worth it. The old carry handle upper/A2FSB will be an oddity, or through back for purists. I love irons. I hate the AR style irons, but then again I'm more used to the old wedge and post, or the more Euro style circle in a circle style irons as they make more sense to my brain. But I try to make sure all my rifles have some kind of option for irons. IMO. |
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Post by Browning35 on May 29, 2015 17:27:40 GMT
I have BUIS on all my AR's. Doesn't mean much, I'm not particularly high speed or anything. Just a hunter and regular shooter
For the Trij Accupoint it's kinda pointless I guess and I see what he means. Mounted those Troy H&K style sights, zeroed them with a few hundred RDS and haven't seen/used them in 4 and 1/2 years as that scope hasn't moved. It has a quick release/zero hold La Rue mount and rings, doesn't matter...hasn't moved. Those Troy iron sights were expensive too.
On the ones with the red dot sights backup irons make a bit more sense as I tend to swap the dot sights around a bit more and I can then cheat and use the irons as a way of zeroing the dot and then flipping the irons down. Still confirm where it's hitting at the range, but I'm not starting from scratch.
I'm not using magnifiers or anything like that either. If I wanted magnification I'd use a scope.
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Post by red on May 29, 2015 20:06:44 GMT
Ok well i have BUIS on my go to rifle with an EoTech as primary. Why because i like to have a back up in case i fubar my primary. Will it be a split second combat change no. If the Eotech goes down while firing i will keep firing , find cover flick the rear sight up then fire some more. Now the big scoped AR ( 6 to 24 X ) no BUIS no room.
Not that im high speed or a tier 1 ops im just a guy that likes to have a plan b.
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Post by as556 on May 29, 2015 21:38:27 GMT
I like BUIS, but I also have a relatively cheap optic. I prefer a fixed A2 FSB, so I just have to buy a rear, usually an MBUS. I figure $50ish is a small price to pay for keeping my gun (and me) in the fight. The weight of the irons is negligible anyway. I did get that shweet tritium Troy fixed rear from GBM for a song so that's sitting on my middy as of now.
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Post by dannusmaximus on May 30, 2015 18:57:16 GMT
Besides, some types of xenomorph might not even show up on infrared!! Derr! BUIS for alien suppression winz! Just back off and nuke them from orbit. It' s the only way to be sure. Truth. |
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Post by MrEMonkey on Jun 2, 2015 17:50:00 GMT
I use and will continue to use back ups because if you optic goes dwon then I'll have some sort of aiming sistem. My philosophy is if I'm using a rifle it's either going to be very brief, like seconds or it's going to be a very, very long time. For those brief moments, not necessary. For those long, long times, yeah, I want them. I agree with this. Transition to folding BUIS in the middle of a firefight? 1. Hope I'm never there to worry about it, and 2. yeah, in that case, it makes sense to transition to your pistol, generally, at least. BUT...if you're seriously planning for that kind of engagement, surely it makes sense to consider that you may not be able to repair/replace your optic promptly after said engagement, in which case having BUIS makes a lot of sense. And really, decent BUIS are cheap enough relative to the cost of a rifle that I figure "why not have them?" |
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Post by redeyes on Jun 2, 2015 21:03:05 GMT
Absolute cowitness + fixed irons mean I don't have to worry bout dis stuff. I need to buy a mount for one of my Aimpoints anyway. Probably get a QD mount. If I can't see through the optic then I will just chuck the fucker offa there.
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Post by Gingerbread Man on Jun 2, 2015 23:23:20 GMT
Just knock it off with an ax.
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Post by omegaman on Jun 3, 2015 2:05:21 GMT
One of these days I will have the time to properly chime in on all dis heresy. I gotz opinions!!! But to summarize; yup, what y'all said.
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), would they be necessary vs just a consumer desire?
