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Post by Browning35 on Dec 3, 2013 0:51:22 GMT
Unlike bump fire stocks or Hellfire triggers I'm actually interested in these. They're not Lightening Links or a Drop-In Auto Sear, it's not full auto. Requires a trigger pull for each separate round. What it makes me think of are ' Short Stroke' kits for lever action. Don't know about the price (little over $500 once you get finished with S&H), but I'm still interested. What do you guys think?  tacfirecon.com/
Tac-Con 3MR trigger (*Click*) |
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Post by Gingerbread Man on Dec 3, 2013 1:59:51 GMT
I'm on the fence. It's cool but I can get a lot of ammo and practice for almost $500. I get to the range once a month and my splits with an AR-15 are between 0.17-0.20 sec using a stock no mods AR trigger group. I personally think I can be faster but I need more range time and a lighter trigger.
WTH does that have to do with this, well, here's my take, it's cool but there is a point where speed over takes and destroys precision. When I was in the mil I spent a good bit of time behind an M-16 that had a full giggle switch. I'd just tap the trigger for 2 rd bursts. Any more than that and the 3 rd round on were uncontrollable. I've fired a bunch of full auto shoulder fired guns and it's not all that in the sense it's not controllable.
Even the SCAR 16 which was the most controllable was a hand full. I could dump a mag into a B27 with little trouble but it wasn't what I consider a good group. 8-12". My take, it's a bunch of money to spend on a trigger that will turn money into noise very quickly. Unless it's a beltfed with QD barrels, I genuinely don't see the point in a full auto gun or a mod that simulates full auto firing.
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Post by scbrian on Dec 3, 2013 2:15:36 GMT
If I'm reading it right, It's using the force of the bolt to push the trigger back forward. We've been doing this for a while in paintball (  ). It starts playing with the actual wording of "semi-auto" (loosely)that is the finger moves for each cycle of operation. You pull the trigger, the gun cycles, the trigger is pressed forward back against you finger, in a ready position to fire again, etc. The trick is getting the right amount of pressure on the trigger so that the action is doing all the work. You maintain constant pressure on the trigger, your finger goes back and forth and you meet the legal definition hence a really, really fast semi auto. That said, I got better things to spend $500 on. Weren't the old hellfire trigger kits about the same and much cheaper? spring loaded IIRC? |
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Post by Gingerbread Man on Dec 3, 2013 2:20:24 GMT
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Post by nxp on Dec 3, 2013 3:37:48 GMT
I vote clownshoes.
Just in watching the video GM posted I can see a few times that the trigger "ran away" from the user, most markedly on the vehicle with the transition to the brushguard. I'm not seeing a lot of benefit outside of reducing the length of the trigger pull.
Seems like a gamer trigger and nothing more, I'd much rather have a quality, repeatable drop in for half/less the cost and put the rest into ammo.
JMO.
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Post by Browning35 on Dec 3, 2013 5:04:10 GMT
WTH does that have to do with this, well, here's my take, it's cool but there is a point where speed over takes and destroys precision Point made. Would be mostly for 3 gun shooting though. Weren't the old hellfire trigger kits about the same and much cheaper? spring loaded IIRC? With all those ' trigger excitor' models from the 80's and 90's they were real positionally dependent. Had to get it just right for it to work. Kind of like with bumpfire without one of those gimmicky stocks. I could get rifles with a Hellfire going, but I couldn't do it every time on demand. Plus you had some shit hanging off your trigger guard and you almost always had to fire it from the hip rather than the shoulder as this cheesy video shows. You're definitely right on the cost. I'm somewhat interested in it. Don't know if I'm * that* interested in it though. Seems like a gamer trigger and nothing more, I'd much rather have a quality, repeatable drop in for half/less the cost and put the rest into ammo. Kind of why I'm interested in learning what I can about them instead of just buying it. Looks like it's decently made and it looks like it works and you can fire it from the shoulder. There are no independent reviews on it yet though. Sometimes new technology that comes out of shooting games actually ends up being a better mousetrap and it catches on for good reason. Take red dot sights, those came out of competitive shooting. Plenty of people still use just irons and irons do work, but there are some gains to be had with red dot sights. Then again the new technology or item might be a shitty overpriced product meant only to separate the end user from his or her hard earned cash. Hard to tell at this point. Immediately thought of those short stroke lever kits in comparison with this and it seems like roughly the same type of thing. Those are actually slicker than snot and I'll be getting a lever with that kit in the not too distant future. |
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Post by RTF Squared on Dec 3, 2013 8:17:13 GMT
Meh, I watched the video and wondered if it was even turned on. Rather than spend that money on a payment on the trigger group this man has on any AR he touches automatically. What an effing beast, he even takes his finger of the trigger when transitioning targets.
My take from what's presented....
1. Wouldn't own one, not even if I was "won the powerball" rich. It just doesn't seem "full-autoey" enough for that price.
2. Regardless, crafty way to circumvent/loophole NFA laws is crafty. My practical side sees nothing of value but my inner Libertarian loves the spirit.
3. People like my ****** buddies who love "full-retard grade" guns and can't have a conversation about AR's without discussing illegally converting one to full auto will like. But since they don't own anything remotely ARish they won't ever own one.
Very valid things come from the competition community and find themselves very commonplace, i doubt this will be one. I don't think this has the tangible/practical value of something like an RDS though. It would need to have some beast-mode cyclic rate to be 'stupid-fun" enough to justify that price tag. Considering a lot of competition shooters and trained tacticool students can shoot as fast/faster than that I think it will find it's niche with "fireworks shooters" who will spray a few mags at some bur cans and Tannerite 1-2 times a year, but don't own a rifle for any practical or defensive purpose.
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Post by doc11 on Dec 3, 2013 13:03:36 GMT
How fast are you really? What we've found in teaching is that technique is as important-more important-than gear when it comes to triggers and actual usefulness. I don't know if anyone has seen Dave_M shoot in real life, but his shooting is with a standard trigger and it looks like full auto. The point being that you have to be really good in order to notice a significant difference in split times. My bet it that the shooter in the video is fast already, and the trigger has little to do with the actual speed of the shots.
Best bet; buy a case of ammo and get someone to explain how to shoot fast, and practice, practice, practice. That's worth more than a $500 trigger on a $900 rifle.
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Post by Browning35 on Dec 3, 2013 15:02:26 GMT
That's funny.  I just think that guy wasn't as fast as some of these others. (Disregard slo-mo slide) Very possible. I was more reasoning that if someone's fast and they've put the work in that this wouldn't make them that much faster. Stands to reason. Still have to control it in recoil to keep it on target. Unless your main objective is to just spray rds all over the place. I think that might be why the shooters in the 2nd video were faster than the guy in the first. Both were keeping their rds on target, the second guys were just better at it. |
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Post by RTF Squared on Dec 3, 2013 17:46:57 GMT
I was more reasoning that if someone's fast and they've put the work in that this wouldn't make them that much faster. Stands to reason.
Still have to control it in recoil to keep it on target. Unless your main objective is to just spray rds all over the place. I think that might be why the shooters in the 2nd video were faster than the guy in the first. Both were keeping their rds on target, the second guys were just better at it. Just wanted to say I can't personally shoot that fast, edited my link to show somebody who can. I've never seen video of Dave shooting but based on what what I've seen his students do. I have no doubt he can work it like a bauce. Braxton comes to mind, he can shoot fast as hell. Dood in the second video was certainly running it way faster. The part in bold I think is dead on. |
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Post by Ten Eight on Dec 6, 2013 21:40:18 GMT
Interesting concept. I'll probably buy one to mess with. If I don't like it I'll re-sell it.
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Post by Browning35 on Dec 6, 2013 23:56:47 GMT
Well do me a favor, tell me what you think of yours when you get it.
I'm married with kids, my spendable cash only comes around once a year and it's not on XMas. Other than that and I gotta save up incrementally or sell something.
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Post by doc11 on Feb 12, 2014 19:59:08 GMT
"Braxton comes to mind, he can shoot fast as hell."
Braxton worked his shit over the period of two years to get that fast. He had a goal in mind; to be Top Shooter at the MilCopp class. He did so. He's a phenomena all to himself.
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Post by RTF Squared on Feb 13, 2014 0:18:30 GMT
"Braxton comes to mind, he can shoot fast as hell." Braxton worked his shit over the period of two years to get that fast. He had a goal in mind; to be Top Shooter at the MilCopp class. He did so. He's a phenomena all to himself. Kind of my point, I would rather spend that on ammo/training to be legitimately that good rather that put a trigger group into my gun. $500 can put a lot towards that goal. Or spend it on a Ghost Gun and just spray out that 30-caliber clip in half a second. |
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Post by Browning35 on Feb 13, 2014 0:46:07 GMT
Ehh, I probably won't ever get one. Just an idea.
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