Web Gear + Butt Pack + Smock vs Backpack as BOB or INCH

The more I tinker with this the happier I am that I got off my ass and started.

So far I've come to the conclusion that using multiple "modular" kit/pouches is going to be better than a single ginormous pack compartment, both for organization and ready access, but it also seems to be helping to keep the packing list from growing out of control (the "if it fit's it ships" issue).

As I'm really focusing on weight as I go (i.e. I'm a spreadsheet junkie) and I'm measuring this stuff in grams I can see clearly how shaving a bit off here and there helps.


Query: Anyone have a preference for a Y harness vs an H harness or vice versa, and if so why?

I've been thinking about that, maybe with the "Connor" pouch/compression panel, either for light weight bulky stuff as you've suggested, or perhaps as a food bag as it would be easy to detach and hang out of the reach of critters.

I'm trying to stay away from a "pack",but HPG has some larger "pockets" that approach pack size. Not that I'm limited to them, but I already have an Ute pack.
Their harness system is great btw, and I love how the prairie belt has a velcro padded flap that serves as a quick connect/disconnect from the packs.

All I can say is that my knees and my back will be happier if I'm traveling light.

Right now I'm waiting on some items to arrive so I can weigh them.
When I have all the bits of actual kit in front of me I'll be able to get a better idea of number and size(s) of pouches to haul it.

In the past I've always started with the pack and then moved on to what I was gong to carry instead of looking at how much cargo I need to move and then picking the container to haul it in.

I'm hoping this way will cut weight and eliminate the siren song that is spare room in a pack.

BTW, anyone know of a good source for an Olive Drab USGI poncho and OD USGI poncho liner?

Having spent significant time wearing web gear (.mil) and backpacking (.civ), let me chime in...

First off, if I am not mistaken, the intent is taking gear that would be in a BOB and distributing it about the body via pockets (smock) and pouches (web gear). The OP mentioned 30lbs, correct?

Man, spreading 30lbs around web gear and pockets sounds miserable. The weight would hardly be supported and the flopping and sagging would get old very quick. Going back to WWII smocks, there is probably a good reason grunts don't roll like that anymore. I would prefer carrying that weight in an appropriately sized backpack/daypack that had awesome suspension, waist belt, and easy to adjust on the move. Personally, I prefer the large compartment technique, opting for lightweight stuff sacks to organize gear (I like the little stuff sacks that come with packable rain pants and such).

The OP also mentioned wearing a plate carrier. I would keep your ammo and ass-kicking gear on there. The weight is distributed across your body, essentially allowing you to wear your ammo, not carry it. Look at a SEAL's loadout (or elite operator of your choice). Lots of dirt time in Afghanistan appears to have resulted in a trend (across the branches) of plate carriers, pistol belts, and assault packs.

Now, for the record, I love web gear! Every chance I could get away with it(because it wasn't standard issue in my time, except for boot camp) I would bust it out. However, I discovered it worked well with the older style Interceptor flak jackets (and allowed flak jacket molle space for 40mm rounds...explosives>bullets). Those bastards were not "worn" like modern plate carriers, and were heavy as shit loaded down with a combat load. In combat (Iraq circa 2005), my web gear was standard 2 ALICE mag pouches, 2 canteens, and IFAK in back (in lieu of buttpack). In training, same set-up, but I used a buttpack and moved the IFAK to my weak side. The key to the buttpack was not loading it down. Otherwise, life starts to suck. I usually carried enough field-stripped MRE's for 2-3 days (shoved in 1 MRE pouch), cleaning kit, snivel gear, ranger roll (rolled tight with boot bands THEN secured to the buttpack), and a M-65 field coat liner (ancient grunt secret). That doesn't sound like much--but a 3 day training exercise with long movements in between evolutions and that buttpack started feeling like a cinderblock.

I ditched the web gear as the MTV vest rolled in. That bitch just sucked, and was too bulky to use with web gear. I just went with a traditional chest rig. Also, the buttpacks had all been phased out in lieu of assault packs.

My personal plate carrier (TAG Rampage, which I no longer have) was very nice and facilitated a reasonably comfortable direct attachment of mag pouches without undo bulk and limited range-of-motion. I see why that is the current popular option. And, better yet, it was relatively comfortable with a variety of backpacks.

One constant I maintained during my military days, I kept my webgear, MOLLE, chest rigs, pistol belts, etc...ass-whooping gear only (canteens on web gear being an exception, otherwise camelbacks attached directly to flak jacket). I keep this philosophy now. If I need to bug-out with bullets flying, all I need to do is grab my chest rig which seamlessly integrates into wearing my go-to Osprey backpack.

My conclusion to all of this rambling, is that, in my experiences, how weight is distributed across your body is a significant factor in comfort over the long-haul. In my experiences, this has been achieved by a)packing the right gear b)using a quality, but lightweight backpack (Osprey!) c) and keeping battle-rattle on the chest (either chest rig or plate carrier). Having now experienced the wonders of civilian backpacks and a proper waist-belt, traditional web gear is no longer an option for me.

I feel if you did a 10 mile hike carrying 30lbs across webgear and jacket pockets, you would quickly wish for a simple damn backpack. My 2-cents.

-although that HPG rig is making me re-think all of this...

-and I used the Y-style harness...but, I wish I had an H-style...I would bet they would distribute the load better

While it's far less than what OM has with it I have spent some time with Alice, both the LBE and the pack, back when it was the only game in town and I have to say that the shoulder harness and the waist belt HPG uses makes a huge difference from ALICE*.
I have the UTE and it's been my (overloaded) pack on my trips to AK. Still more comfortable in my 40's than a 40 pound ALICE pack was in my late teens.

I get OM's point and if I were trying to carry this stuff on old school web gear I think he's right on target, but I think using modern more ergonomic suspension systems that not only support the weight better and mostly on the hips as well as hold the gear tighter to the support system may alter the results quite a bit from old school LBE with Alice clips, ranger bands, and 100mph tape to secure stuff. I think OM suspects this based on his parting comments and I suspect he's right.

BTW, I'm really curious to know if anyone sells a plate carrier pouch that can be attached to the web gear (HPG, not ALCIE). I don't want the extra weight of a full plate carrier and I'm not going to be ditching a pack and charging forward with just a plate carrier and combat load. I'm not going to be playing at light infantry, operator, or any sort of bad ass. My operational model is essentially going to be along the line of a rabbit, skunk, or porcupine.
In the remote chance I ever have to deal with gun play while bugging out my first choice is to just break contact. I'm thinking bunny rabbit, porcupine, and skunk** not wolf, bear, or badger.

I can say that the Interceptor vests are not the most comfortable, but they're head and shoulders above a steel plate in a budget blue plate carrier. Wore both in Iraq and I'm pretty sure my lower back issues stem from the steel plates I had to wear 20+ hours a day while running convoys at speed*** over curbs and down goat trails until we scored some Interceptors from a sympathetic .mil organization.
I'm thinking a separate plate carrier isn't worth the weight if I can attach ceramic or HPDE plates to the HPG harness. If I can't I'll go without the plates unless we've gone all Red Dawn/Mad Max/Black Friday.

I'm REALLY trying to hold off on buying any pouches or packs until I have all the gear I intend to carry (sans weapon, ammo, and mags...verboten here) sitting in front of me for a final weigh in and organization into kits. Then I can look at how to position and balance the stuff based on weight and bulk.











*Bigger than the old school trick with a cut up sleeping mat and 100mph tape to pad the straps.
**I wish CS grenades were much lighter....
*** Nostalgic point: old motto was "Drive 'em like you stole 'em".