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Post by Gingerbread Man on May 5, 2015 14:56:50 GMT
I can almost understand one person who's not right in the top floor doing this. No sound board telling you it's a bad idea, no rational voice saying this isn't right or maybe I should rethink this. But two people, really, neither of them looked at the other and said "This is dumb, it will not end well and really, really, really wrong. We shouldn't do this and I'm going to stop you if you do."
Got it, you don't like cartoons or art but damn, how did you think it would end? Jihad across the world? Please. But I guess that's what happens in an echo chamber.
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Post by LowKey on May 5, 2015 15:11:42 GMT
You have to keep in mind, to them this was a guaranteed pass into Paradise.
I live around these fucktards every day. As unscientific as it may be I can pick out these extremest douchebags from the crowd 9 out of 10 times. Fuck, one of them stopped me today on the way home at a police checkpoint and I could tell he wished he could get away with cutting my throat and leaving me in the desert.
It's not a lack of a sane sounding board, it's that both of them buy into the mindset that killing anyone who doesn't agree with their religious beliefs is an honorable action worth dying for.
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Post by rickoshea on May 5, 2015 15:39:34 GMT
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Post by rickoshea on May 5, 2015 16:24:24 GMT
LOL, the thread on that "other" forum is being purged as we speak....Remember kids, its not only the Moslems that despise your free speech.  |
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Post by LowKey on May 5, 2015 16:30:24 GMT
Just so it doesn't get lost due to a "Hard Drive Issue", I'm reposting this here-
LowKey
Post subject: Re: Cartoon exhibit attack in Texas
While I think that the groups(s) sponsoring the event are a bit on the rabid side*, they had a good point to make- Don't give in to bullies.
Doing so just encourages them to bully more.
In this case they heavily increased security measures in anticipation of such an occurrence, and I seriously doubt any attendees where unaware of the high potential for such an attack taking place.
Looks like they new there would be risks and accepted them. Last I checked, that's still allowed.
If there were never any idiot fanatics trying to kill people over cartoon drawings:
1- This cartoon/art competition wouldn't have gained press coverage.
2- This group wouldn't have bothered to throw this event in the first place.
*As the saying goes, "Even a broken clock is right twice a day".
Stercutus
Post subject: Re: Cartoon exhibit attack in Texas
LowKey wrote:
"While I think that the groups(s) sponsoring the event are a bit on the rabid side*, they had a good point to make- Don't give in to bullies.
Doing so just encourages them to bully more.
In this case they heavily increased security measures in anticipation of such an occurrence, and I seriously doubt any attendees where unaware of the high potential for such an attack taking place."
And not giving in to bullies encourages them to try kill as many people as possible in a suicidal attack? These are not bullies we are talking about. These are religious extremists who have believe that their faith demands that they kill people opposed to their beliefs and are willing to die in it's defense. This has nothing to do with bullies who tend to be more interested in personal power and ego stroking. Bullies don't launch mass murder/ suicide attacks.
They are not trying to kill people over "cartoon drawings". They are trying to kill people because the drawing are sacrilegious against the most important figure in their faith. Their faith demands that they not accept that. Making more drawings won't actually change that.
If anyone thought that the event wasn't going to be dangerous they must have been living in bottle since the 7th of January. In this case the attackers were dumb and poorly trained, the defenders were alert and ready. Convenient, but something you can't rely on.
Thorne wrote:
"Stercutus wrote:
They are not trying to kill people over "cartoon drawings". They are trying to kill people because the drawing are sacrilegious against the most important figure in their faith. Their faith demands that they not accept that. Making more drawings won't actually change that.
the defenders were alert and ready. Convenient, but something you can't rely on."
Everyone seems to be making the assumption that this event wasn't deliberate bait to draw out anyone who thinks murderous violence is the way to deal with things that offend them.
You notice how kids these days won't blink at the kind of brutality and foul language that would turn grandma blue in the face? It's called desensitization and it comes from repeated exposure.
Events like this one can put an end to the silent threat that if you draw the 'wrong' thing some crack-head is going to pop outta the wood work and try and murder you for it.
It does not work that way. Brutality and foul language have always been a part of our culture, pretty much world wide. They are much less so a part of it these days then say a 150 years ago. The only changes have been to how many people want to share foul language openly in a public forum. Also we (US -Western) have swung away from real brutality to more depictions of it. This has more to do with the treatment and role of women in society today.
Attacking a religion for the purpose of ridicule merely motivates believers to react. It does not desensitize people. Mostly it causes them to dig in their heels and resist in accordance with their beliefs. It can cause people who are not necessarily strong believers to become more radical.
Quote:
Epic trolls hooked two fish.
Yeah, this time. It could have just as easily have all ended in tears.
LowKey
Post subject: Re: Cartoon exhibit attack in Texas
Stercutus wrote:
LowKey wrote:
While I think that the groups(s) sponsoring the event are a bit on the rabid side*, they had a good point to make- Don't give in to bullies.
Doing so just encourages them to bully more.
In this case they heavily increased security measures in anticipation of such an occurrence, and I seriously doubt any attendees where unaware of the high potential for such an attack taking place.
And not giving in to bullies encourages them to try kill as many people as possible in a suicidal attack? These are not bullies we are talking about. These are religious extremists who have believe that their faith demands that they kill people opposed to their beliefs and are willing to die in it's defense. This has nothing to do with bullies who tend to be more interested in personal power and ego stroking. Bullies don't launch mass murder/ suicide attacks.
They are not trying to kill people over "cartoon drawings". They are trying to kill people because the drawing are sacrilegious against the most important figure in their faith. Their faith demands that they not accept that. Making more drawings won't actually change that.
If anyone thought that the event wasn't going to be dangerous they must have been living in bottle since the 7th of January. In this case the attackers were dumb and poorly trained, the defenders were alert and ready. Convenient, but something you can't rely on.
So the alternative is...what? Never do anything that may give offense? BS.
I sincerely doubt the idea behind the event was to desensitize anyone to anything, in any shape way, form, or fashion. I do believe it was meant primarily as a great big, "Fuck You" to any and all that think they have the right to stifle freedom of speech, with a secondary hope of (to paraphrase Dogbane) hooking some fish. Where's the problem with that?
If this had been an art competition held in the 1950's or 1960's to showcase artwork depicting inter-racial couples to challenge racist elements, who would criticize it?
How about an art expo in the 1970's of same sex couples to challenge homophobes who thought they had some sort of right to use force to keep gays underground?
I remember when people used to cite a phrase, " I may not agree with your point of view or opinion, but I will fight to the death to defend your right to speak it." That sentiment still applies, is still germane, and is still sorely needed. If you don't like some forms of art, speech, or thought.....then don't look or listen to it. I don't care that Islam forbids depictions of the prophet...let Muslims not draw him...it isn't a <valid> restriction on anyone else. They also forbid the consumption of pork and alcohol...are you going to give up bacon and beer?
It's fine for them to choose what is acceptable conduct of themselves but it isn't acceptable for them to decide what is acceptable conduct for others, and if a portion of them think they can use lethal force to to try to get their way......then I have zero problem with removing those indivduals from the gene pool in any way shape form or fashion. Just as I would have no issue with removing from the gene pool anyone who thought they could use force to decide what your sexual orientation should be, what ethnicity you should be allowed to marry, or what religion you may practice.
Holding this art competition isn't much different from the idea of holding a Gay Pride parade in front of the Westboro Baptist Church. You are 100% tweaking the tail of the ignorant assholes who think they can browbeat and intimidate everyone else.
Yup, it's a huge group instead of a small group of bullies. The principle is the same.
I've never seen where kowtowing to them ends up well, no matter how bloody it may get defying them.
grumpyviking
Post subject: Re: Cartoon exhibit attack in Texas
suit yourself, but if you want to insult the principles of any religion you will also have to accept the consequences. personally I've got better things to do.
LowKey
Post subject: Re: Cartoon exhibit attack in Texas
grumpyviking wrote:
suit yourself, but if you want to insult the principles of any religion you will also have to accept the consequences. personally I've got better things to do.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but can you tell me when you think it's acceptable for someone to kill you for not respecting their religious beliefs?
When someone is killed for not obeying the dictates of another religion or belief system, should we just say, "he had it coming"?
I assure you, you can make fun of my religion all day long and hold a televised special on the highest of holy days to poke fun at and blatantly insult my religious beliefs and my response would be.....nothing. Are you suggesting that I would be justified in using force against you under those circumstances?
I mean. if the Spanish Inquisition was still a thing I'd be against that as well despite the risk of being killed. It's risky. That doesn't mean it's wrong,. or stupid, to tell bullies to fuck off.
Stercutus
Quote:
It's fine for them to choose what is acceptable conduct of themselves but it isn't acceptable for them to decide what is acceptable conduct for others, and if a portion of them think they can use lethal force to to try to get their way......then I have zero problem with removing those indivduals from the gene pool in any way shape form or fashion. Just as I would have no issue with removing from the gene pool anyone who thought they could use force to decide what your sexual orientation should be, what ethnicity you should be allowed to marry, or what religion you may practice.
Quote:
I sincerely doubt the idea behind the event was to desensitize anyone to anything, in any shape way, form, or fashion. I do believe it was meant primarily as a great big, "Fuck You" to any and all that think they have the right to stifle freedom of speech, with a secondary hope of (to paraphrase Dogbane) hooking some fish. Where's the problem with that?
You seem to be missing the point to the point of conflating a lot of unrelated other issues that have nothing to do with this issue. These are people who five times a day since they were old enough to walk, dropped to all fours, faced Mecca and prayed (or even worse.. converts). The depictions are an attack on not just their religion but identity as a person. Telling them to go fuck themselves isn't going to do anything but piss people off. So if the point is to ratchet up terrorist attacks and start an insurgency in the US then these events are a good path towards that.
This whole thread reminds over and over again about how and why US leaders made so many stupid decisions post invasion in Iraq and Afghanistan. Complete and total insular thinking.
Quote:
So the alternative is...what? Never do anything that may give offense? BS.
I think you have me mixed up with someone else. I am sure dozens of members will more than happily tell you I could care less about saying and doing things that give offense to people. For example I am still waiting on the mass protest/ looting in Garland for the white police officer shooting of yet another black man. The media is spinning this all wrong. I think he shot the white guy by accident.
My point being there are better ways of doing things than insulting people and attacking their identities as people.
Stercutus
grumpyviking wrote:
suit yourself, but if you want to insult the principles of any religion you will also have to accept the consequences. personally I've got better things to do.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but can you tell me when you think it's acceptable for someone to kill you for not respecting their religious beliefs?
When someone is killed for not obeying the dictates of another religion or belief system, should we just say, "he had it coming"?
I assure you, you can make fun of my religion all day long and hold a televised special on the highest of holy days to poke fun at and blatantly insult my religious beliefs and my response would be.....nothing.
Right. That is your milquetoast belief system. Everybody else is not weak like that.
__
LowKey
Stercutus wrote:
LowKey wrote:
grumpyviking wrote:
suit yourself, but if you want to insult the principles of any religion you will also have to accept the consequences. personally I've got better things to do.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but can you tell me when you think it's acceptable for someone to kill you for not respecting their religious beliefs?
When someone is killed for not obeying the dictates of another religion or belief system, should we just say, "he had it coming"?
I assure you, you can make fun of my religion all day long and hold a televised special on the highest of holy days to poke fun at and blatantly insult my religious beliefs and my response would be.....nothing.
Right. That is your milquetoast belief system. Everybody else is not weak like that.
So you're saying that religious beliefs give you the right to kill those who don't respect them?
As to weak....nope.
When someone, for example one of the occasional douche bags who managed to brow nose their way into possession of a shield (as opposed to most of the decent cops out there) , attempts to provoke me into commuting a chargeable offense , I smile and laugh while refusing to take the bait. That's not milquetoast; that's knowledge, ethics, and tactically outmaneuvering the cretin.
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Post by Gingerbread Man on May 5, 2015 16:58:24 GMT
LOL, the thread on that "other" forum is being purged as we speak....Remember kids, its not only the Moslems that despise your free speech. What RAYCISM! WHAT HOMO-HATERY! WHAT YOUNOARGEEISM! Why are they so, never mind...  |
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Post by LowKey on May 5, 2015 17:13:02 GMT
Do let me know when they're going to ban me. I'd like to pencil them in for a government audit about that time.
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Post by Gingerbread Man on May 5, 2015 17:20:52 GMT
Even after all that pissing and moaning, no one got a warning in their profiles. NOW! If it'd have been me or Nameless, we'd have been banned.
Currently, Aikibiker, is their target from what the logs say.
Funny doe, they fuss but do nothing.
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Post by LowKey on May 5, 2015 17:31:52 GMT
Even after all that pissing and moaning, no one got a warning in their profiles. NOW! If it'd have been me or Nameless, we'd have been banned. Currently, Aikibiker, is their target from what the logs say. Funny doe, they fuss but do nothing. Hmm. I think I need to give him an invite4 over here. Saen and I had him over to dinner once while he was still in Kuwait working security. Decent guy. |
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Post by MrEMonkey on May 6, 2015 1:28:10 GMT
Wow. Thanks for the recap, LowKey. Seems I really haven't been missing anything worthwhile over there. I still like to chat with some of my off-topic peeps, but I haven't really been terribly motivated to put my muck boots back on to do so.
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Post by MrEMonkey on May 6, 2015 1:40:10 GMT
Welp, we'll never know who won the cartoon contest but we KNOW who lost. This one was my personal favorite:  |
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Post by Browning35 on May 6, 2015 3:44:06 GMT
I see things haven't changed much over there. All the commentary about this radical Muslim attack in Garland over a cartoon is pretty revealing. This is where libtards give a 10 second disclaimer saying that they disagree with mass murder as a reaction to any sort of art or print media no matter how ' provocative' and then spend the next 10 mins banging out a reply on why it's morally justified for radical jihadists to murder people over some fucking cartoons, pretty much says it all. It's like they expect it to be a one way street. Islam and their political nonsense are sacred cows above all ridicule, but they have blinders on when it comes to ridiculing both Christians and Christianity. They don't even see it. For instance here's NY Times Reporter who seems to share the same opinion that some of those ZS'ers hold (that if the attendee's had of been murdered at the event that they somehow ' deserved it' for daring to criticize a religion that engages in some really jacked up practices and forcibly converts those of other religions through murder and torture).  I'm not a Christian, but I recognize hypocrisy when I see it. NYT Reporter : 'Free Speech Aside, Why Would Anyone Hold A Conference Critical Of Islam?'Helpful hint: media and pundits OK w/ Piss Christ but not Pam Geller are not “hypocrites” (*Click*)If you're not familiar with the story...
MSNBC's Maddow Shows ‘Piss Christ’ But Not Latest ‘Charlie Hebdo’ (*Click*)Now the talking heads have managed to twist it so that the focus is not on radical Jihadists wanting to engage in mass murder over a cartoon, but in trying to demonize the people who held the event. |
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Post by rickoshea on May 6, 2015 4:54:38 GMT
I see things haven't changed much over there. All the commentary about this radical Muslim attack in Garland over a cartoon is pretty revealing. This is where libtards give a 10 second disclaimer saying that they disagree with mass murder as a reaction to any sort of art or print media no matter how ' provocative' and then spend the next 10 mins banging out a reply on why it's morally justified for radical jihadists to murder people over some fucking cartoons, pretty much says it all. Isn't it like saying, "she deserved to get raped because she was dressed provocatively"? I think most of those lamestream media-types are just hoping they'll be beheaded last. |
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Post by Browning35 on May 6, 2015 5:09:36 GMT
Isn't it like saying, "she deserved to get raped because she was dressed provocatively"? Pretty much. I imagine they'd disagree with the comparison, but it's true. Either you're for free speech for everyone or you're not. Not saying you have to like everything that people say or write or draw (I don't), but they have a right to say it. Personally I think that they believe that Islamic extremists like ISIS, the Taliban and Al Qaeda can be reasoned with just because CAIR and other US based organizations are good at pretending that they're tolerant of non-Muslims. They'll be useful idiots until they aren't useful any longer. |
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Post by Browning35 on May 6, 2015 12:30:12 GMT
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