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Post by Browning35 on Aug 21, 2014 13:24:52 GMT
I'm taking a carbine class in the not too distant future. Mostly I'm more of a pistol/knife/unarmed guy and that's where the majority of my efforts have been directed as it's more likely if/when I have to fight it'll be with a pistol in my hand, a knife or nothing at all. I do like rifles though because I'm into hunting and dabble a bit in longer range shooting, so I am interested in carbine courses particularly as it relates to defending our home (it's unlikely I'll be going to Afghanistan). There's a place near here I'm going to. At any rate I was looking at chest rigs, but some of them are so involved it almost seems like why not go whole hog and get a plate carrier and then just put some mag pouches on and go with that? I can't do anything about my noggin against rifle-fire without gearing up like Boba Fett, but at least that way I'd be somewhat protected in case we're moving and one of my classmates lets off an errant round. I could also use it for home defense where it would replace the Level IIIA pistol rated vest I have by my bedside or throw it into my end of the world/where dogs are mating with cats/total anarchy preps. Was looking at this one and it looks alright, but I also don't really know what I'm looking at and have little experience with this particular niche. www.skdtac.com/Shellback-Banshee-Plate-Carrier-p/shb.125.htm For the plates I'd likely get the 8x10's at 5 lbs apiece from bulletproof me dot com since those are lighter weight than almost all the other options without spending $900 a plate. www.bulletproofme.com/RP-Level-4-Stand-Alone.htmlMostly just used the whole mag in the back pocket way of reloading or bags. Budget is around $600 or maybe just slightly over for this. |
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Post by Gingerbread Man on Aug 21, 2014 13:56:20 GMT
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Post by Browning35 on Aug 21, 2014 14:43:23 GMT
Looks okay. Cost is right. 10x12 would give a little more protection.
I don't know about a place for mags for that class though (no Molle) since that's a concealable slick side model.
Wonder how much those plates weigh.
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Post by Gingerbread Man on Aug 21, 2014 14:56:15 GMT
Site says 2 lbs for chest rig. 7.5 per plate, side plates are 1.5 lbs. So quick math without mags say 20 lbs total.
There are a ton of youtube videos on AR500 plates. They're heavy but they're relatively cheap, don't degrade and stop rifle rounds. Mrgunsngear hit one with multiple 7.62x54r. Zero peneration, I bet it'd hurt though.
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Post by Browning35 on Aug 21, 2014 16:49:02 GMT
Cool, thanks for the poundage figures.
So you think that would be a better way of going vs 11.5 lbs with the Shellback?
(The Shellback that has a little less protection horizontally and vertically - I hadn't decided on the side protection yet, was maybe going to add it later).
I was just worried about the weight. Only vests I've ever worn are the pistol rated level II and IIIA ones, I didn't want it to slow me down to the point where I feel like I'm running underwater.
If you're saying it's not that much of an issue for a reasonably fit person it's probably not, just never worn one before for any length of time. Couple buddies have them. One has some of these super lightweight plates and an Eagle/SKD carrier of some kind (but he's got more money than he knows what to do with) and the other one went with a Condor carrier and these really heavy plates that the local gun shop had in the back. Just looking for something in between the two.
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Post by Gingerbread Man on Aug 21, 2014 17:00:19 GMT
20 lbs without other kit is heavy. But to get the same level of rifle protection with ceramics costs 4-5x times as much without the carrier. Is it going to suck doing a carbine course with a plate carrier weighting 20 lbs? IMO, no. not an issue. Most carbine courses are not physically challenging. It's a lot of standing around with some drills in between. I've always been disappointed with the lack of physical activity with courses.
Personally, I'd want to have more weight on me because I wouldn't feel like a slug at the end of the day. Even when Redeyes and I train we throw in far more activity than any course I've been to.
My mind set on this piece of kit is it's affordable. It's only used in the very unlikely event of home invasion. If I have to throw on 20 lbs of kit during a HI, cool, not an issue. Would I want to wear this to go hiking, no. Would I want this kit in Asscrackistan? No, but there is no way on God's green earth I'm ever going to be there doing that.
My thought is it's afforadable, it will stop any threat out there, and it's not absurdly heavy. Heavy, yes, but it's not going to kill you. I guess the best analog would be a weight vest for working out. I have worn a 25-45 lbs one and it's not that bad. I can still do anything I need to do with that weight on. Maybe try one of those before you commit?
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Post by Browning35 on Aug 21, 2014 17:48:06 GMT
That heavier pound one is about the weight that my poor buddy has and is ridiculously heavy. So that's pretty much the standard I have to go by of what I don't really want. There is a lot of standing around, but it is freaking hot out. I hate to imagine how hot that thing would be to wear right now. Hopefully won't be like that in Nov (last year we had some 99 degree days in fall).
I'll check em out in person though. Thanks.
BTW, wearing that vest how'd you carry your mags for that class? Belt?
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Post by Gingerbread Man on Aug 21, 2014 18:02:12 GMT
On belt and I just opened my chest rig up and wore it over. I mean, if I'm going full ninja, I'M GOING FULL NINJA!
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Post by Browning35 on Aug 21, 2014 18:11:28 GMT
What chest rig? TT? BCM? SKD?
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Post by Gingerbread Man on Aug 21, 2014 18:28:08 GMT
I have Condor (KKeeeyyyYYAAAHHHH!~Official call of the Condor), Spector Gear and Maxpedition. I have TT belts with TT and Maxpedition pouches. The rest is a smash together of kit I bought second hand after it wasn't cool anymore. 95% of it looks like it was never used when I got it. By far my favorite is the Maxpedition, 3 mag plus a pistol and flashlight. Small blow out kit and it's good.
90% of the time I'm using my belts. I have a dedicated range one and it's good. That's if I'm wearing it, usually I train just civilain dress.
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Post by omegaman on Aug 23, 2014 14:09:23 GMT
SKD is running a sale on their armor: www.skdtac.com/Tactical-Armor-Plates-s/290.htmI am always back and forth on this, even more so when I was in the military. There does seem to be a convienence to having all of your gear directly attached to your flak/plate carrier. In what I would consider to be extensive experience in combat, I always keep going back to slick/pseudo slick armor and a chest rig. My reasons: 1. Weight - all dat shit attached to armor makes for a very heavy piece of kit. This wears you down. I have found that carrying the same load in a chest rig over armor helps distribute the weight more evenly and you can adjust straps and such to take pressure off hot spots. Full blown armor with just 6 loaded mags up front will start to "sag" after awhile. Now, this opinion is based on not just having to wear this shit for hours, but sometimes living in it for days. Also, the old Interceptor flak and MTV were not know for comfort. Maybe this nice new-fangled gear wears better? 2. Modularity - sometimes you might need your armor and no kit or vicaeversa. I always found it nice to be able to drop my kit but still be armored, especially in vehicles or standing post in a defensive posture. Again, all based on my combat experience--maybe not an issue to consider for our prepping needs. So, my advice (for what it's worth), if you have not run a carbine class before I would recommend getting a simple lo-pro chest rig that will hold 4-6 mags and maybe a FAK. The FAK, dump pouch (which I highly recommend), and pistol mags can be belt carried. This way you can focus on your shooting and not fighting your gear. Speaking of belts, I only wear a battle belt these days for the range (I can post pics here or you can find it on "that other board") which are also a great way to run your gear without getting too ninja  Chest rig recommendations: TAG!!! (I love their gear, these are the only chest rigs I would see Marines and SEALs wear, often issued to many teams), SKD, BCM, and TT (TT being another company whose gear actually gets used by operators). I probably just made you decision harder,lol! Sorry Gear pRon: My kit era-2008 as a squad leader in a joint Helo/Osprey recon & QRF task force:  |
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Post by Gingerbread Man on Aug 23, 2014 14:13:45 GMT
I count 12 40mm and 1 frag grenade.....some one having some issues they need to talk about? LOL, J/K.
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Post by omegaman on Aug 23, 2014 14:52:16 GMT
I count 12 40mm and 1 frag grenade.....some one having some issues they need to talk about? LOL, J/K. I throw like a girl, hence the 40mm  The frag was my insurance against starring on Al Jazeera wearing an orange jumpsuit  |
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Post by Browning35 on Aug 25, 2014 4:56:05 GMT
Yeah, that does make it a bit harder.
More choices always do. Probably better in the long run though. Thanks.
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Wish BCM's split mag harness was in stock. Is that shit ever for sale?
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Post by omegaman on Aug 25, 2014 10:57:19 GMT
Yeah, that does make it a bit harder. More choices always do. Probably better in the long run though. Thanks. - Wish BCM's split mag harness was in stock. Is that shit ever for sale? I have never seen them go on sale  Nice and useful looking rig. I like how it integrates a hydration carrier. |
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The frag was my insurance against starring on Al Jazeera wearing an orange jumpsuit 
Nice and useful looking rig. I like how it integrates a hydration carrier.